The Mayweather handpicking myth is a lie

[whoelsebutjames]

How hard is it to be genuinely objective around here and call a spade a spade? Is it really that hard? Defending your favourite fighters is fine, but at least try to do it with some objectivity.

Mayweather is a ATG. He will go down as the greatest defensive boxer of ALL TIME. And we won't see anyone else like him in our lifetimes.

But anyone who tries to argue that Mayweather didn't duck prime Margarito, Cotto, Pacquiao and Mosley are pure nut huggers simply trying to re-write history.

He also didn't want anything to do with Tszyu either (smart of him), which is more understandable considering his age as well as some other factors.

The fact is he was brought up in a boxing family, and from before the time he could even walk his career had basically already been planned out. He was raised, educated and managed to make as much money, in the easiest, least risky way possible, whilst taking as little damage as possible along the way.

That plan included cherry picking, ducking, dodging and using every advantage possible, whether inside the ring or outside of the ring.
Whether it be glove sizes, ring sizes, draining fighters, forcing fighters to fight at catch weights 10 pounds heavier than they'd ever fought before and then still coming in 2 pounds heavier than the agreed catch weight, meaning a possible 20+ pound weight advantage on fight night (Marquez).

And the end result of it all is a 50-0 record, and arguably the richest athlete of our era. With barely a scratch on his face.

Well thanks you just cleared it all up.thanks

We already posted a Steve Kim (notorious Floyd critc) article where Arum says Floyd agreed to fight Marg but wouldn't sign in tandem with the contract extension for more fights. Kinda like Mikey when he wanted to fight Gamboa but wouldn't extend his contract. A delimma Manny PAC never faced since he was signed to Arum he of course fought Clottey, Marg, Cotto, Bradley(Arum fighters). . Plus Marg ain't even a great fighter in his own right.

And Manny was scared of needles in 2009. But you probably swept that under the rug while being objective at the same time. Being "objective" and "splitting the difference" are not same.

But ok, Floyds a cherry picked because he didn't fight Cotto, PAC, or TSZYU in his prime. cool. Thanks for your input.

I thought you would change the subject again but thats part of the whole problem with enablers of bullies who only listen to their groupies and yes men. Karma comes and bites them on the @ss -- they become their own worse enemy and set themselves up for failure.

Case in point, I have already said in this thread that Floyd would probably have beaten the guys he avoided and/or ducked--those fighters who the real fans wanted him to fight in their prime; but I went and emboldened who I feel were legit challengers of your list anyway. However there is one obvious Floyd caller outer that you enablers really hate to remember and for good reason; that being GGG, who can swarm, slug, and methodically walk great boxers down.

Anyway, back to your question. I'm actually a visual person and learn a lot from youtubes but yes I could also learn a lot about Jones style by reading, especially since his moves were so fast. Id also say that Jones often fights like a rooster because he spent so much time with rooster fighting and Ill bet that a well spoken gent like himself probably has rooster fighting books. Jones avoided some of the best partly due to his getting robbed overseas but I wouldn't call him a cherry picker, at least nothing like Floyd who admits to it. Jone's use of roids are kind of equal to a duck via fear though

Im going to ignore the bold.

ggg vs Floyd would of been a great fight. Probably because Floyd might have lost. The loss would be because of the size difference. Which I think is the whole point of this thread. People callfloyd a cherry picker because they never felt like he could loose. That's common sense.

GGG also hasn't gone out of his way to fight Ward. Yet I hear everyone cal him an ATG without challenge. Ok. Cool.

Now so far the scorecard is like this.

Mayweather duck score card
-------------------------------
Winky (probable not his weightclass)
Martinez (probable*)
Margarito (Arum said Mayweather was willing, dispute over contract extension)
Cotto (Debatable- Arum connected)
Tszyu (2004-2005 debatable)
PAC (2009 afraid of needles)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now back to the Mayweather challenge and it is for any wondering Tom, ****, or harry to answer.

Pick the names that would make Mayweather and ATG if he were to fight and beat. You can also add names as long as they belong to his division at the time he was fighting there.

Super Featherweight 1998-2001

Acelino Freitas, Joel Casamayor, Robert Garcia, Steve Forbes, Jong Kwon Baek, Takanori Hatakeyama, Lavka Sim and Jorge Barrios.

Lightweight 2002-2003

Paul Spadafora, Leonard Dorin, Stevie Johnston, Artur Grigorian, Raul Balbi, Juan Lazcano and Javier Jauregui

Light Welterweight 2004-2005

Kostya Tszyu, Ricky Hatton, Vivian Harris, Carlos Maussa, and Junior Witter

Welterweight 2006

Antonio Margarito, Kermit Cintron and Luis Collazo

Light Middleweight 2007

Cory Spinks, Vernon Forrest, Joachim Alcine, Serhiy Dzinziruk and Roman Karmazin

Welterweight 2007

Paul Williams



and here is the Mayweather challenge.

[DeadLikeMe]

The fact that you have to tear down Floyd to even attempt to pretend Pac, Hopkins, or Klitschko is greater only proves how far ahead Floyd is.

[maracho]

1. I think you know what I meant about evolution yet you are taking it some where else. If you've paid attention to this thread you'd realize I've been very open to alternate interpretation of events. I even included a Floyd duck list. I think that I've been more alternative view points than you. But to your credit I believed you tried.

Every sport evolves. When a new hot qb comes on the scene and does well, the next year the defensive coaches are ready for them with new answers because the old paradigm won't work. When 3 man big driver super teams came the warriors evolved into 5 shooters. Everything is a reaction to the past and some of these reactions are intelligent. Boxing is no different. It's not like we went through a dark age. If the past was completely relevant today -- fights would look the same.

As I said in the past they didn't block as often. Now they do. In the future people might stop blocking in order to get off more punches because everybody else is blocking. Loma is a potential evolution of the sport. He does things others didn't do with his footwork and intelligent volume punching. Floyd was an evolution too. In fact, the reason I use so many non boxing analogies is because boxing popular opinion is stubborn to change. That's why it took MMA for boxing to start considering going back to TV.

While I do beleive in evolution and selection. I do not prescribe to a wholly fatalist point of view. I agree that much in life is a stream of accidents but I would caution against saying that all of it is. That is to say that I believe more in the "selection" part of Darwin's Natural Selection. As some Greeks have poetically put it there are more than one stream. But that is a complicated subject.

Again you are giving examples of intelligently designed responses. In contrast, evolutionism is based on the idea that traits accidentally mutate and only selected by mother nature if they happen to appear at her favorable niche. Real scientists and science fans know that the only thing that evolves is evolution theory itself and thats because its constantly being proven false.

In perspective to boxing as an intelligent design and as apposed to random mutations, we can see a clear pattern of parental effects in fighters like Floyd Mayweather who has inherited a predisposition of ancestral phenotypes, which triggered an epigenetic switch when he began boxing at a young age. This can be seen in his instinctive moves as well as his father's and uncle's facial structure, which is also why he instinctively refers to these survival mechanisms as gifts from God. On flip side of the switch, trauma, a lack of love and security in the ancestry can actually lead hyper vigilance, a lack of independence, and a lack of bravery' which could be why so many thugs depend so much on gangs, entourages, and so called friends

2. I watch some MMA but overall I'm not a fan. It wasn't a fully serious comment but not a full unserious comment. I prefer boxing, Thai boxing, and BJJ all more than I prefer MMA because I beleive the rules in these sports allow the athletes to practice their craft more superiorly. Limitation creates strength. I prefer an expert in one field over a jack of all trades approach that is MMA.

I prefer boxing much more myself and I cant understand why, which is itself also perplexing to me

3.
Ted Kid Lewis* 5'7 flyweight to heavy weight
Georges Carpentier *5'11 *flyweight to heavy
Ezzard Charles 6' Middle to heavy
Harry Greb 5'8 welter to heavy
Mickey Walker 5'7 welter to heavy
Archie Moore middleweight to heavy
Bob Fitzsimmons middle to heavy
Sam Langford 5'7 lightweight to heavy
Len Harvey* flyweight through heavy

I pretty sure the fly weights as a lot of fighters that day started as kids. For comparison PAC 5'5 started at age 16, would be of similiar size. I don't thinks he'd be competive with any heavyweights today. Not even fat old shot retired Tyson. Hell if Toney could barely manage in the division I doubt PAC would fare any better.

The younger you start is always going to be a big advantage as long as they dont lose interest but I doubt if the boxers back then started boxing earlier than today. Im sure they started street fighting a lot earlier though.

Boxing is a sport designed to help a smaller more agile person defend against a potentially bigger stronger person but the difference today could simply be due to organisms being more rugged the further we go back in time and the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

4. I don't understand what this proves. But ok.

It proves that Floyd sees himself as proud of making easy money and outsmarting the corrupt governing bodies but in reality he is merely stooping to their level, which is basically why empires fall

4a. Maybe we are unclear on what each other's saying. I said Floyds first performance was better and he changed his style in the second because people thought it was closer than it was. You brought up Golovkin- why does this always seem diametrically opposed. I like Golovkin, he's not my favorite but hey. Do you think Floyd Maidanna I was closer than Jacobsvs Golovkin I also assume.

Ill have to rewatch both fights for both were very close

[NUCLEAR]

*****es are desperately trying to revision history. Just like what they are doing on those confederate statues.

Floyd is a beta male closet **** that never fought an A level elite fighter in his prime.

Deal with it.

[maracho]

Well thanks you just cleared it all up.thanks

We already posted a Steve Kim (notorious Floyd critc) article where Arum says Floyd agreed to fight Marg but wouldn't sign in tandem with the contract extension for more fights. Kinda like Mikey when he wanted to fight Gamboa but wouldn't extend his contract. A delimma Manny PAC never faced since he was signed to Arum he of course fought Clottey, Marg, Cotto, Bradley(Arum fighters). . Plus Marg ain't even a great fighter in his own right.

And Manny was scared of needles in 2009. But you probably swept that under the rug while being objective at the same time. Being "objective" and "splitting the difference" are not same.

But ok, Floyds a cherry picked because he didn't fight Cotto, PAC, or TSZYU in his prime. cool. Thanks for your input.



Im going to ignore the bold.

ggg vs Floyd would of been a great fight. Probably because Floyd might have lost. The loss would be because of the size difference. Which I think is the whole point of this thread. People callfloyd a cherry picker because they never felt like he could loose. That's common sense.

GGG also hasn't gone out of his way to fight Ward. Yet I hear everyone cal him an ATG without challenge. Ok. Cool.

Link for contract stuff please

You mean scared of needles drawing blood a few days and hours before a fight because of past experience making him weak and also not trusting USADA. He simply wanted the much more professional WADA but Floyd su****iously balked on that idea

Mayeather said he could beat GGG easily. GGG agreed to go down to 154, which Floyd held belts in but Floyd ducked big time.

In contrast Ward constantly called out GGG but wouldn't even meet GGG half way at 164 so I think Ward ducked big time too

[whoelsebutjames]

Again you are giving examples of intelligently designed responses. In contrast, evolutionism is based on the idea that traits accidentally mutate and only selected by mother nature if they happen to appear at her favorable niche. Real scientists and science fans know that the only thing that evolves is evolution theory itself and thats because its constantly being proven false.

In perspective to boxing as an intelligent design and as apposed to random mutations, we can see a clear pattern of parental effects in fighters like Floyd Mayweather who has inherited a predisposition of ancestral phenotypes, which triggered an epigenetic switch when he began boxing at a young age. This can be seen in his instinctive moves as well as his father's and uncle's facial structure, which is also why he instinctively refers to these survival mechanisms as gifts from God. On flip side of the switch, trauma, a lack of love and security in the ancestry can actually lead hyper vigilance, a lack of independence, and a lack of bravery' which could be why so many thugs depend so much on gangs, entourages, and so called friends



I prefer boxing much more myself and I cant understand why, which is itself also perplexing to me



The younger you start is always going to be a big advantage as long as they dont lose interest but I doubt if the boxers back then started boxing earlier than today. Im sure they started street fighting a lot earlier though.

Boxing is a sport designed to help a smaller more agile person defend against a potentially bigger stronger person but the difference today could simply be due to organisms being more rugged the further we go back in time and the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.



It proves that Floyd sees himself as proud of making easy money and outsmarting the corrupt governing bodies but in reality he is merely stooping to their level, which is basically why empires fall



Ill have to rewatch both fights for both were very close

I feel like you've beaten me at my own game. I literally enjoyed reading your response. Bravo. A bit light before the evening.

"Families are always rising and falling in America." -Hawth

[whoelsebutjames]

*****es are desperately trying to revision history. Just like what they are doing on those confederate statues.

Floyd is a beta male closet **** that never fought an A level elite fighter in his prime.

Deal with it.

I don't care about confederate statues, removing it doesn't change a thing. Preferably, if anything that needs to change --Fox News needs to go back to being passively racist and subtle like the 90s, rather than the overt brand it's been currently practicing since 2000.

Link for contract stuff please

You mean scared of needles drawing blood a few days and hours before a fight because of past experience making him weak and also not trusting USADA. He simply wanted the much more professional WADA but Floyd su****iously balked on that idea

Mayeather said he could beat GGG easily. GGG agreed to go down to 154, which Floyd held belts in but Floyd ducked big time.

In contrast Ward constantly called out GGG but wouldn't even meet GGG half way at 164 so I think Ward ducked big time too

If we're using fighters words GGG said anybody from 154-168. Then later revised it to 164 for Ward. You can't selectively pick when you want to read between the lines.


Article below

--------------------

Arum said while Mayweather would have taken the $8 million to fight Margarito, he asked for a $10 million guarantee to fight opponents such as Miguel Cotto and Ricky Hatton, when Arum was only willing to guarantee $7 million.

Arum said Mayweather also asked for $20 million to fight De La Hoya, a fight Arum said he wasn't interested in participating in.

"That's not in the cards," Arum said. "He wants $20 million for the De La Hoya fight? It's not there. Sometimes, my man, you gotta know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. We'll talk about things down the road."

I had offered him numbers [for a multi-fight contract extension] that were livable. His expectations are in the stratosphere. He was entitled to buy me out, and he did. We decided this was the best way to handle it. He is a free agent. We have agreed to work with each other [in the future]."

Arum said he was simply not interested in participating in a De La Hoya-Mayweather fight, but not because of his distaste for De La Hoya.

"I don't want to, because if I did that fight, I would be working for such a small percentage, it's not worth it," he said.


http://www.espn.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2420382

[maracho]

I feel like you've beaten me at my own game. I literally enjoyed reading your response. Bravo. A bit light before the evening.

"Families are always rising and falling in America." -Hawth

Thank you I could feel Jesus speakong to me on that one....and have a great Labor Day weekend!

Yes it's actually been shown that citizens will start following their governments examples

[maracho]

I don't care about confederate statues, removing it doesn't change a thing. Preferably, if anything that needs to change --Fox News needs to go back to being passively racist and subtle like the 90s, rather than the overt brand it's been currently practicing since 2000.



If we're using fighters words GGG said anybody from 154-168. Then later revised it to 164 for Ward. You can't selectively pick when you want to read between the lines.


Article below

--------------------

Arum said while Mayweather would have taken the $8 million to fight Margarito, he asked for a $10 million guarantee to fight opponents such as Miguel Cotto and Ricky Hatton, when Arum was only willing to guarantee $7 million.

Arum said Mayweather also asked for $20 million to fight De La Hoya, a fight Arum said he wasn't interested in participating in.

"That's not in the cards," Arum said. "He wants $20 million for the De La Hoya fight? It's not there. Sometimes, my man, you gotta know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. We'll talk about things down the road."

I had offered him numbers [for a multi-fight contract extension] that were livable. His expectations are in the stratosphere. He was entitled to buy me out, and he did. We decided this was the best way to handle it. He is a free agent. We have agreed to work with each other [in the future]."

Arum said he was simply not interested in participating in a De La Hoya-Mayweather fight, but not because of his distaste for De La Hoya.

"I don't want to, because if I did that fight, I would be working for such a small percentage, it's not worth it," he said.


http://www.espn.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2420382

I didn't know that Arum had any say over Oscar during the Margarito/Mayweathers talks or am I missing something? Anyway, if so Floyd may have purposefully priced himself out

I know GGG was calling out Bernard too but did he or did Sanchez actually say anyone up to 168?

[whoelsebutjames]

I didn't know that Arum had any say over Oscar during the Margarito/Mayweathers talks or am I missing something? Anyway, if so Floyd may have purposefully priced himself out

I know GGG was calling out Bernard too but did he or did Sanchez actually say anyone up to 168?

These negotiations for a contract extension happened after Judah according to the article via Dan Rafael.

Priced himself out? He made 25 million as the Bside vs Oscar. Yet Arum said there was no money in it. Then he went on to Hatton, He was garaunteed 13 million vs Ricky Hatton and made 20. The article states the garaunteed he wanted and that Arum said, he wouldn't do it because he wouldn't make no money.

I think it's more likely, Haymon saw that Mayweather was being underpaid and could do better without Arum.

Arum could be main source of the Mayweather slander for years. Arum and his enablers Steve Kim and Dan Rafael. Dan is probably the least biased of the two. It seems people believe anything Arum says as long as it's about somebody they don't like. Since we are on the subject of ducking, as just of a few years ago Arums fighters weren't fighting anybody but each other. His stable has since regrowm and the boundaries have since been opened.

It's suprising people people listen to Arum for anything other than entertainment.

Of course promoters are always going to have lawsuits and disputes but the way oscar and Floyd have become his bitter rivals are telling. Americas a center right country and with that, they generally err on the side of the business man. But! Considering his history of contract disputes. Mikey Garcia, Cotto, Oscar, and that time when PAC tried to sign with Oscar for 300k- you can draw or not draw your own conclusions.

http://www.espn.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2602660

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/jan/12/sports/sp-11457

http://www.boxingscene.com/mikey-garcia-explains-his-legal-case-against-top-rank--76984

-------------
This is a clip from Mikey's Lawsuit

"The lawsuit alleges that Garcia’s contract “improperly provides Top Rank the ability to extend the agreement indefinitely, essentially rendering the contracting fighter an indentured servant of Top Rank.”
---------
Off subject but since your brought up Floyd and Benard opinions about MMA, let's hear Arums take on it.





And as far as 154-168 for GGG

In his own words.