The Mayweather handpicking myth is a lie

[whoelsebutjames]

Its likewise delusional to see my argument as circular Socratic when Floyd himself repeatedly admits that he also loves fighting blueprints to lose for easy money, hence the moniker Money May Money Team and his coming out as a bank robber . Unfortunately, Canelo and SOG are copying TBE, hence the bad press and/or unchristian behaviors.

Its also delusional to try and compare Mayweather's resume to Lomachenko who is fighting guys 100 times more dangerous in his first ten fight than Floyd did in his first 17 fights

Manny is past it, get over it and Amir Khan gives the real reasons the fight fell apart http://www.express.co.uk/sport/boxin...ill-could-time

Very circular.... We already discussed 4 pages ago that Floyd did the typical thing and fought fluff his first two years. We covered that in the Morales Vs Floyd debate.. Floyd challenged after 2 years. Morales challenged after 2 years. Barrera took almost 3. Theres no reason to deride someone for standard business practice.

I actually didnt even compare Floyd and Loma.... I simply brought up Loma to illustrate Arum's track record with making fights... If you cant see that, your blind....

1. LOMA is nearly 30 years Old. He stayed in the amatuers and olympics when most fighters were already pro. His career path is unprecedented for a pro this is true. .But its not unprecedented for a 29 year old.. Born Feb 17 1988. Its not uncommon for 29 year olds to fight for titles! Golovkin won is first title at 28..... Hes 35 and still fought no one...

It doesnt sound as amazing when you say 29 year old does it??? Of
They are grown men. Floyd fought for a title at age 20 or 21 I believe. But since the 19 year old fought fluff, he gets no credit there lol

circular

Why bring Ward into? Hes nothing like Floyd, not flashy, not brash not aroogant, doesnt promote a gangster image. Yet their just alike in your eyes.. Well youve just exposed yourself for what we already figured out pages ago.. We get it.. Arrogant black men need to be punished lol

2. Loma is fighting Walters left overs who happen to be TOP RANK FIGHTERS. lol Walters was an Amazing win. TOP RANK fighters only fight TOP RANK FIGHTERS. TOP RANK should no longer able to use people are ducking or scared to promote fights anymore.. Their track record speaks for itself.

NICHOLAS WALTERS LAST 4 fights
2016-11-26 Vasyl Lomachenko* Arum/Toprank
2015-12-19 Jason Sosa Arum/Toprank
2015-06-13 Miguel Marriaga Arum/Toprank
2014-10-18 Nonito Donaire* Arum/Toprank

Vasyl Lomachenko Last 4 fights
2017-08-05 Miguel Marriaga Arum/Toprank
2017-04-08 Jason Sosa Arum/Toprank
2016-11-26 Nicholas Walters Arum/Toprank
2016-06-11 Roman Martinez


Lets look at Pacquiaos run at WelterWeight

2017-07-02 Jeff Horn
2016-11-05 Jessie Vargas ARUM/TOPRANK
2016-04-09 Timothy Bradley Jr ARUM/TOPRANK
2015-05-02 Floyd Mayweather Jr
2014-11-23 Chris Algieri
2014-04-12 Timothy Bradley Jr ARUM/TOPRANK
2013-11-24 Brandon Rios ARUM/TOPRANK
2012-12-08 Juan Manuel Marquez ARUM/TOPRANK
2012-06-09 Timothy Bradley Jr ARUM/TOPRANK
2011-11-12 Juan Manuel Marquez ARUM/TOPRANK

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/sport...acquiao/story/

2011-05-07 Shane Mosley
2010-11-13 Antonio Margarito ARUM/TOPRANK
2010-03-13 Joshua Clottey ARUM/TOPRANK
2009-11-14 Miguel Cotto ARUM/TOPRANK

You need to call backup.. Im sure theres somebody who hates floyd better than you, who will probably be able to express a decent point..

For the record. Ive litterally never had a negative thing to say about Loma, ever. I think Loma and Pirog, are easily 2 of the most talented fighters in awhile that happen to be Eastern European. Pirog had health issues. I dont beleive in hype machines. Ive always said Pirog and Loma are the real deal.. Undefeatable, no. But real deal fighters.Theres some assumption that if Im not a die hard Golovkin beleiver that I dont like white fighters, which is a rediculous assumption.

[whoelsebutjames]

look at this ****** here...no clue what's going on



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/art...ght-offer.html

lol..........

[billeau2]

1. I think you know what I meant about evolution yet you are taking it some where else. If you've paid attention to this thread you'd realize I've been very open to alternate interpretation of events. I even included a Floyd duck list. I think that I've been more alternative view points than you. But to your credit I believed you tried.

Every sport evolves. When a new hot qb comes on the scene and does well, the next year the defensive coaches are ready for them with new answers because the old paradigm won't work. When 3 man big driver super teams came the warriors evolved into 5 shooters. Everything is a reaction to the past and some of these reactions are intelligent. Boxing is no different. It's not like we went through a dark age. If the past was completely relevant today -- fights would look the same.

As I said in the past they didn't block as often. Now they do. In the future people might stop blocking in order to get off more punches because everybody else is blocking. Loma is a potential evolution of the sport. He does things others didn't do with his footwork and intelligent volume punching. Floyd was an evolution too. In fact, the reason I use so many non boxing analogies is because boxing popular opinion is stubborn to change. That's why it took MMA for boxing to start considering going back to TV.

While I do beleive in evolution and selection. I do not prescribe to a wholly fatalist point of view. I agree that much in life is a stream of accidents but I would caution against saying that all of it is. That is to say that I believe more in the "selection" part of Darwin's Natural Selection. As some Greeks have poetically put it there are more than one stream. But that is a complicated subject.

2. I watch some MMA but overall I'm not a fan. It wasn't a fully serious comment but not a full unserious comment. I prefer boxing, Thai boxing, and BJJ all more than I prefer MMA because I beleive the rules in these sports allow the athletes to practice their craft more superiorly. Limitation creates strength. I prefer an expert in one field over a jack of all trades approach that is MMA.

3.
Ted Kid Lewis* 5'7 flyweight to heavy weight
Georges Carpentier *flyweight to heavy
Ezzard Charles 6 Middle to heavy
Harry Greb 5'8 welter to heavy
Mickey Walker 5'7 welter to heavy
Archie Moore middleweight to heavy
Bob Fitzsimmons middle to heavy
Sam Langford 5'7 lightweight to heavy
Len Harvey* flyweight through heavy


I pretty sure the fly weights as a lot of fighters that day started as kids. For comparison PAC 5'5 started at age 16, would be of similiar size. I don't thinks he'd be competive with any heavyweights today. Not even fat old shot retired Tyson. Hell if Toney could barely manage in the division I doubt PAC would fare any better.

4. I don't understand what this proves. But ok.

4a. Maybe we are unclear on what each other's saying. I said Floyds first performance was better and he changed his style in the second because people thought it was closer than it was. You brought up Golovkin- why does this always seem diametrically opposed. I like Golovkin, he's not my favorite but hey. You also think Floyd Maidanna I was closer than Jacobsvs Golovkin, I also assume.




You just used 4 good paragraphs to say nothing. Go figure, people hide behind words when they don't know what to say but still have a motive to say something. I am well aware of the historical tradition of snobbery and elitism that goes on when discussing ATG. Why is that when you don't agree with popular opinion everyone assumes they need to educate you on everything.

Popular opinion is popular opinion. Elitist opinion is elitist opinion. My and your opinion is my and your opinion. All opinion is flawed.

I don't need a bunch of sheep to explain anything to me. I recognize garbage technique when I see it. I've seen Marciano training videos and fights I think he has good technique. I've seen Dempsey fight, I think he has good technique. Do I think that these old school techniques can't be improved? NO! They can.

Very defensive...which goes to figure being that you made an azz of yourself. No the sheep are the ones who repeat things without looking, not the people who look carefully at film, events, history to inform themselves, try it some day.

The old school techniques are based on different distance, different approach (from fencing), and I guess you also know genius that gloves change the function of the lead, to a jab because of gloves affect the transfer of power from the punch.

If your going to be insolent STUDY the subject at hand, sheeple.

[whoelsebutjames]

Very defensive...which goes to figure being that you made an azz of yourself. No the sheep are the ones who repeat things without looking, not the people who look carefully at film, events, history to inform themselves, try it some day.

The old school techniques are based on different distance, different approach (from fencing), and I guess you also know genius that gloves change the function of the lead, to a jab because of gloves affect the transfer of power from the punch.

If your going to be insolent STUDY the subject at hand, sheeple.

Youre a dumb @ss. No amount of words can hide that-babbling sheep.

[whoelsebutjames]

Everybodys ducking Arum

Arum said while Mayweather would have taken the $8 million to fight Margarito, he asked for a $10 million guarantee to fight opponents such as Miguel Cotto and Ricky Hatton, when Arum was only willing to guarantee $7 million.

Arum said Mayweather also asked for $20 million to fight De La Hoya, a fight Arum said he wasn't interested in participating in.

"That's not in the cards," Arum said. "He wants $20 million for the De La Hoya fight? It's not there. Sometimes, my man, you gotta know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. We'll talk about things down the road."

Arum said he was simply not interested in participating in a De La Hoya-Mayweather fight, but not because of his distaste for De La Hoya.

"I don't want to, because if I did that fight, I would be working for such a small percentage, it's not worth it," he said.

http://www.espn.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2420382

The definitive guide to Arum ducking fighters

Lets look at Arums matchmaking.

Arum fighters @ super feather weight via http://www.toprank.com/
(current Donaire left THIS YEAR 2017)

Nicholas Walters
Jason Sosa
Miguel Marriaga
Vasyl Lomachenko
joseph Adorno
Erick De Leon

NICHOLAS WALTERS LAST 4 fights
2016-11-26 Vasyl Lomachenko* Arum/Toprank
2015-12-19 Jason Sosa Arum/Toprank
2015-06-13 Miguel Marriaga Arum/Toprank
2014-10-18 Nonito Donaire* Arum/Toprank

Vasyl Lomachenko Last 4 fights
2017-08-05 Miguel Marriaga Arum/Toprank
2017-04-08 Jason Sosa Arum/Toprank
2016-11-26 Nicholas Walters Arum/Toprank
2016-06-11 Roman Martinez


Lets look at Pacquiaos run at WelterWeight

2017-07-02 Jeff Horn
2016-11-05 Jessie Vargas ARUM/TOPRANK
2016-04-09 Timothy Bradley Jr ARUM/TOPRANK
2015-05-02 Floyd Mayweather Jr
2014-11-23 Chris Algieri
2014-04-12 Timothy Bradley Jr ARUM/TOPRANK
2013-11-24 Brandon Rios ARUM/TOPRANK
2012-12-08 Juan Manuel Marquez ARUM/TOPRANK
2012-06-09 Timothy Bradley Jr ARUM/TOPRANK
2011-11-12 Juan Manuel Marquez ARUM/TOPRANK
Marquez signed to Arum to Face Pacqaiou, click here lol
2011-05-07 Shane Mosley
2010-11-13 Antonio Margarito ARUM/TOPRANK
2010-03-13 Joshua Clottey ARUM/TOPRANK
2009-11-14 Miguel Cotto ARUM/TOPRANK

hmmmm... i wonder why Khan vs Pac never happened... 4/12 fighters were not with top rank.. Where is the Pac vs Thurman, Brook, Spence Porter talk?????? Pacs literally ran out of ARUM fighters to fight LOL

3 different fighters.. same thing...... Do you notice a pattern here
Can Arum negotiate a fight where his fighter is not the A side???

Every non arum fighter is a cautious fighter...


Arum wants broner for pac 05/17


Arum bashes everyfighter that doesnt belong to him. Look on youtube and you will find more than enough evidence. People only believe Arum when its conveinant.


Mikey beating broner means nothing 3 months later, lol



Mikey calls out Loma.. Arum says Mikey is not a draw

which is my earlier point verbatim....
Arums fighters don't fight anybody dangerous but he give them the reputation of dangerous in order to manuever himself into more money via public opinion. His fighter chase money fights but he derides people not under his banner for chasing money fights!

oh yea....
_____________________________________________
In a recent interview, Top Rank's CEO, Bob Arum, stated that WBC lightweight champion Mikey Garcia (37-0, 30 KOs) is demanding "millions of dollars" for a fight with Vasyl Lomachenko (8-1, 6 KOs), who holds the WBO super featherweight title.
Garcia has no idea how Arum came up with that information, because he says the two of them have never discussed the financial terms, or any terms for that matter, for a Lomachenko fight.
"Bob Arum does not even know what we're asking for, because we've never sat down to discuss that issue. He always says that I ask for a lot of money, and that's why the fights have never been given to me, but that's something that can not be known - simply because he's never sat down and talked to me. We have never discussed that issue," Garcia said to ESPN Deportes.

http://www.boxingscene.com/mikey-garcia-reacts-arum-money-claim-on-lomachenko-bout--119162

____________________________________

needle gate via Alex Ariza, Mannys former conditioning coach



and heres alex on mikeys contract dispute

___________________________________
Heres how toprank does business....

The lawsuit alleges that Garcia’s contract “improperly provides Top Rank the ability to extend the agreement indefinitely, essentially rendering the contracting fighter an indentured servant of Top Rank.” The filing claims that the contract violates California law. It also claims that the promoter has also violated the United States’ Muhammad Ali Act for multiple reasons, including “by failing to make required disclosures to Garcia concerning, among other things, the amount of money it would make from each of Garcia’s bouts.”
According to Garcia, the contract with Top Rank is already expired - with two pending clauses remaining. One clause provides Top Rank with the ability, until the end of May, to match any competitor's offer. The other clause provides Top Rank with the promotional rights to Garcia's first five defenses [if he is holding a title at the time his promotional contract expires].

Before you corporate cheerleaders start clamoring a clause is a clause.. Yes, but failing to disclose it, is serious shady business.

Toprank settled. Settlement is undisclosed. If they had a good counter suit and did things properly, do you think they would of relented it?

OH yea, and since Arum and Mayweather were on good terms....2008?

Without fanfare, which is a rarity in boxing, Floyd Mayweather Jr. filed a lawsuit against his former promoter, Bob Arum of Top Rank, in Clark County (Nev.) District Court two weeks ago.

Mayweather claims that Arum shortchanged him on matches against Arturo Gatti in 2005 and Zab Judah in 2006. In the lawsuit, Mayweather said he was due 85% of Top Rank's revenue from the Gatti fight and 80% from the Judah fight. He claims Arum has refused to turn over the records for accounting. Mayweather has asked for the statutory minimum of $10,000 on each of the five counts, but would be in line for millions in punitive damages on a breach of contract claim.

"There's no question we owe him some money," Arum said. "There's no dispute there. But he owes us a lot of money and the people he's involved with owe us even more. After 98% of the money we owed him was paid, we stopped paying him for a reason.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/fight-personal-floyd-mayweather-jr-bob-arum-article-1.286596

Arum said he paid money to J Prince and other fees. Nothing became of that lawsuit that i know of. But it definitively proves that they were no longer on good terms after the Oscar fight.. Makes sense why he didnt fight Arum fighters

Oh yea... Cotto left Arum in 2011. Mayweather fought Cotto in 2012.. Coincidence???
_________________________

bob arum said he never talked directly to floyd during pac negotiations.. floyd talked to Lebouf his step son whom has a good relationship with floyd



Dana on how easy it was to hash deal with floyd



Bob Arum hasnt bashed Golovkin yet because he hopes to face him agasinst Ramirez @168. If Golvkin doesnt take the fight, hell be next on Arums **** list of cautious fighters.


“The fight Gilberto wants, assuming he’s successful in this [April 22 fight], is against Triple-G,” Arum said during the conference call. “And I would agree to fight that fight winner-take-all. I think Ramirez destroys Golovkin the same way that he destroyed Arthur Abraham.”

http://www.boxingscene.com/arum-ramirez-destroy-golovkin-winner-take-all--115171

"I really believe that as you said, they have trained together and when fighters train together - even though training is not the same as the fight - pretty well they figure the other guy out and he is very confident on how well he'll do against Golovkin," Arum told BoxingScene.com.

http://www.boxingscene.com/arum-ramirez-confident-what-he-against-golovkin--106041

ALL OF THIS IS UNMISTAKEABLE PROOF.. Arum and his cronies, steve kim and dan rafael have created a propoganda machine for years to make Arum money. Arums fighers fight each other. Arum has been overpricing himeself


LIL G

im not entertaining anymore talk of ward vs Golovkin. I dont blame for golovkin not fighting ward-- its common sense. He would loose bad.... Thats not what this threads for. Golovkins faced nobody. He has one name on his resume and that was his toughest fight.. A guy that was destroyed by Dmitry Pirog. Pirog had a similiar style to G, come to think of it...

But Pirog was less cautious.





Gs biggest challenge is a guy who's unproven at his weightclass.. Go figure. Ward asked him for 1 fight at 168 and Golovkin starts talking about staying at his weight class. HE COULD HAVE TAKE ONE FIGHT and went back down... DUH. When people ignore the obvious, on 3 different occasions- its not a mistake, its telling you something......

http://www.boxingscene.com/roc-nation-gggs-team-turned-down-ward-36-minutes--96761

http://www.************.com/2015/09/...ke-ward-fight/
___________________________________
Loeffler didn’t want to commit to a fight against Ward when he had a pay-per-view fight for Golovkin against IBF middleweight champion David Lemieux (34-2, 31 KOs). Loeffler thinks the money that Golovkin will make in his fight against Lemieux and the winner of the Miguel Cotto vs. Saul “Canelo” Alvarez fight would be more than the money they would have gotten for a fight against Ward.

Loeffler says that Ward’s promoters at Roc Nation Sports wanted a 50-50 deal with Golovkin. Loeffler thinks it’s better for Golovkin to wait until he fights Lemieux and the Cotto-Canelo winner before commiting to a fight against Ward, because they could get a better than 50-50 split of the money.
________________________________________
WOW ISNT THIS THE SAME THING FLOYD IS CRITISIZED FOR??? FIGHTING FOR MONEY LMAO




Arums fighers fight eachother because hes garaunteed to profit. Not because other fighters are scared.. You guys read into everything but the obvious.

"I don't want to, because if I did that fight, I would be working for such a small percentage, it's not worth it," BOB ARUM on why he didnt want to help Mayweather fight Oscar

http://www.espn.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2420382


WHY HAS NON OF THE PROFESSIONAL BOXING MEDIA WROTE ABOUT THIS BEFORE ME???

Mayweather VS Baldomir

Ppv was reported at 325 k. You can find a link if you try.

325k ppv x $50 = 16.2 mil+. Live gate 1 million= 16.3 million

Promoted takes 30% of 16.3. = 4.9mil for Dan goosen
Managers take roughly 10%= 1.6 mil

4.9 + 1.6 = 6.5 million.

Revenue minus promotion and management cost.

16.3 million - 6.5 million = 9.8 million for fighters.

Fighter purses. 80/20 split.

Baldomir makes 1.6 million + Floyd 8 million = 9.6 million total

So in our estimation we are off 200k. But since we don't have the exact figures such as hd ppv vs standard that's reasonable. Also don't have exact gate or manager cost, promotional cost, event venue or stage renting, etc.

Mayweather Challenge

Now so far the scorecard is like this.

Mayweather duck score card
-------------------------------
Winky (probable not his weightclass)
Martinez (probable*)
Margarito (Arum said Mayweather was willing, dispute over contract extension)
Cotto (Debatable- Arum connected)
Tszyu (2004-2005 debatable)
PAC (2009 afraid of needles)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pick the names that would make Mayweather and ATG if he were to fight and beat. You can also add names as long as they belong to his division at the time he was fighting there.

Super Featherweight 1998-2001

Acelino Freitas, Joel Casamayor, Robert Garcia, Steve Forbes, Jong Kwon Baek, Takanori Hatakeyama, Lavka Sim and Jorge Barrios.

Lightweight 2002-2003

Paul Spadafora, Leonard Dorin, Stevie Johnston, Artur Grigorian, Raul Balbi, Juan Lazcano and Javier Jauregui

Light Welterweight 2004-2005

Kostya Tszyu, Ricky Hatton, Vivian Harris, Carlos Maussa, and Junior Witter

Welterweight 2006

Antonio Margarito, Kermit Cintron and Luis Collazo

Light Middleweight 2007

Cory Spinks, Vernon Forrest, Joachim Alcine, Serhiy Dzinziruk and Roman Karmazin

Welterweight 2007

Paul Williams

[maracho]

Look at this ****** here...no clue what's going on

‘It's not 'Triple G' no more, it's 'Little G'. 'Little G' turned down an official fight with us. For all the talk, for all that they said, the proof is in the pudding. I have an email right now that shows we gave them what he wanted...50-50... and the promoter turned it down, and said maybe 2017.'
'I'm a very respectful fighter, I don't get out of character and start talking crazy, but if you don't want to fight a fighter, or you don't think it's a good style or it's just not time then say that. The truth is they never wanted to fight.'

In response, Golovkin's promoter Tom Loeffler contacted the Los Angeles Times to clarify the 'context' of the rejection.
Loeffler said the offer was for a 50-50 purse-split in 2016, after each fighter had prepared by taking one more fight earlier in the year.

'It would've been a bad deal to take,' he told the Los Angeles Times.
He said the offer was received after he'd announced Golovkin's next fight against the Canadian David Lemieux, which takes place on pay-per-view on 17 October at Madison Square Garden in New York. This is disputed by Ward, who said in his video interview with SB Nation's Fight Hub TV that the offer was made 'before we knew he had a pay-per-view coming up, this is probably a week before [the fight was announced]. I knew nothing about the pay-per-view.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/art...ght-offer.html

The fight with Lemiuex was announced in July of 2015 and the winner to fight Cotto and they probably knew about it months before that.

Where's the date of the offer in your quote by Roc Nation? Ward hadnt fought for two years and when he finally did fight in 2015 , he couldnt even make 168 anymore. GGG has offered him a fight at 168 but Ward wants it at 175

Golovkin offered to go down to 154 for Mayweather but Ward sounds like a bully calling out little guys. He did try to fight Floyd at 160 yet he cant make 164 or 168 fro Golovkin..lol http://www.boxingscene.com/andre-war...ght-you--63365

[whoelsebutjames]

The fight with Lemiuex was announced in July of 2015 and the winner to fight Cotto and they probably knew about it months before that.

Where's the date of the offer in your quote by Roc Nation? Ward hadnt fought for two years and when he finally did fight in 2015 , he couldnt even make 168 anymore. GGG has offered him a fight at 168 but Ward wants it at 175

Golovkin offered to go down to 154 for Mayweather but Ward sounds like a bully calling out little guys. He did try to fight Floyd at 160 yet he cant make 164 or 168 fro Golovkin..lol http://www.boxingscene.com/andre-war...ght-you--63365

This all the long way of saying Golovkin chased the money fight. Gennady Money Mayweather, following the blueprint. Handpicked opponents.

[maracho]

circular

Why bring Ward into? Hes nothing like Floyd, not flashy, not brash not aroogant, doesnt promote a gangster image. Yet their just alike in your eyes.. Well youve just exposed yourself for what we already figured out pages ago.. We get it.. Arrogant black men need to be punished lol

I didnt bring Ward up, you did

GGG also hasn't gone out of his way to fight Ward. Yet I hear everyone cal him an ATG without challenge. Ok. Cool.

You must be projecting your own antisemitism with all the Arum hate and nothing thing about Oscar but I guess thats because he puts his own fighter's health jeopardy to protect Mayweather. See how he let Marquez and Canelo screwed by weight, etc etc..

By the way I was clearly making the "hitting a nerve comment" to poster BJ12 so its kinda creepy that you are projecting toward yourself his emotional discharge over Arum and his money.

[pikeylyons]

Floyd came out with the ski mask cause he was fixing to rob the bank again..anyone know how much each fighter generated? Heard minimum pay out for each was $100 million for Floyd and $40 million for Conor

Curious to know what they ended up getting wouldn't surprise me if Floyd raked in a few hundred million off this fight..definitely a nice way to retire again..I feel like with his skill set he should keep fighting even at 40 years old the amount of money he can generate is off the charts

[maracho]

This all the long way of saying Golovkin chased the money fight. Gennady Money Mayweather, following the blueprint. Handpicked opponents.

No it indicates that SOG Ward may have been lying

Wow, so you think Lemieux is a handpicked nobody?