Goodbye JMM you were great but not quite elite

[Raggamuffin]

Manny is secure though as an elite. Beating JMM twice, MAB twice, Erik twice all great fighters put him in that bracket before he moved up past 130. Everything else like Mosley, Cotto, dlh and Hatton was icing on the cake.

What about Pacs ko losses? Where Marquez won and lost and wasn't kod, Pac was ktfo TWICE!

[WesternChamp]

His body transformation and head size from when he lost his flyweight title to when he was fighting at 130 beating up an old Morales.

you mean pac was fat in the lower weights and then got all ripped when he moved up right? oh wait, pac has always been ripped. what body transformation? so a nugga cant grow? pac suppose to stay the same size he was as a flyweight?

[chrisJS]

Annnnnnnnd that's the reality of his claims ladies and gentlemen.

His own observation with no evidence. So the "talk" in 2005/2006 as you put it was really you talking to yourself because no one else was saying it.

I'll take the lack of evidence as conclusive.

So the reality is 2009 was when the talk was happening and that was after Manny was a household name and had beaten first ballot hof fighters.

Ok, so where's the JMM "evidence" that you have taken as concrete?

[WesternChamp]

What about Pacs ko losses? Where Marquez won and lost and wasn't kod, Pac was ktfo TWICE!

all the greats has been ko.

those early kos of manny, he wasnt even consider as a decent fighter yet so those shouldnt count. because if pac were to retired during that time, he would never be looked at as an ATG so those early kos shouldnt determine his greatness.

[lparm]

Ok, so where's the JMM "evidence" that you have taken as concrete?

Who said evidence?

I said allegations and there were and there's multiple news articles and people within boxing that set it.

[WesternChamp]

Ok, so where's the JMM "evidence" that you have taken as concrete?

memo *cough cough* known ped guru, master, sifu, the plug.

[BoxingIsGreat]

If he isn't elite, neither is Pacquiao. I have 3-1 Marquez in their series.

[daggum]

If he isn't elite, neither is Pacquiao. I have 3-1 Marquez in their series.

fighters can lose to fighters who are worse than them on an overall scale. it doesnt overall make them equals. is junior jones better than barrera? etc...

[lparm]

If he isn't elite, neither is Pacquiao. I have 3-1 Marquez in their series.

The record books have it 2-1-1 Manny.

Your opinion versus the record books.

Guess which one matters more.

[WesternChamp]

If he isn't elite, neither is Pacquiao. I have 3-1 Marquez in their series.

good thing record is not based on ones opinion.