was Roberto Duran really that great?

[shawn_]

Explain please.

Roberto Duran is not the straight ahead bullrushing fighter looking for the knockouts that you describe. Roberto Duran had an enormous commitment to digging to the body, breaking you down, and controlling you. He was much more patient than you give him credit for. You assume that because he fought with such zest and energy that he was not focused and calculating in his strategy. You neglect his defensive prowess that separates him from all of the Roberto Duran want to be's like JCC.

[Sweet Pete]

Roberto Duran is not the straight ahead bullrushing fighter looking for the knockouts that you describe. Roberto Duran had an enormous commitment to digging to the body, breaking you down, and controlling you. He was much more patient than you give him credit for. You assume that because he fought with such zest and energy that he was not focused and calculating in his strategy. You neglect his defensive prowess that separates him from all of the Roberto Duran want to be's like JCC.

Agreed. I meant he showed frustration against slicksters or movers. Guys that would not allow him to fight within a close range or even a mid range for long. Guys like Benitez and Leonard. He got visibly frustrated and made taunting motions to those who fought him like this.

Against any other style, Duran would do as you said, and his head/upper body movement and defense are severely underrated.

But one of the key things you said goes into what I say. He was very much into controlling you, and against fighters of that style he reasonably got frustrated because he couldn't do it as effectively. It's easy to see with someone of his nature.

[Super_Lightweight]

If you don't see a great fighter in Roberto Duran, then you don't know boxing.

[Wiley Hyena]

Nobody here, present company included, is questioning Duran's credentials, I'm just nitpicking on whether he'd beat a prime 135 pound Sweet Pea...and the data I have tells me that he probably would not have.

..........lol.............at middleweight an over the hill Duran takes Hagler 15 for the first time in his career and damn near beat him, beats Iran Barkley who destroyed Hearns twice, but somehow loses to Swee Pea at 135 in your fantasy fight. Oh yeah...that's a sure bet there. lmao

[Sweet Pete]

..........lol.............at middleweight an over the hill Duran takes Hagler 15 for the first time in his career and damn near beat him, beats Iran Barkley who destroyed Hearns twice, but somehow loses to Swee Pea at 135 in your fantasy fight. Oh yeah...that's a sure bet there. lmao

Duran also lost to Dejesus at LW. And he got owned by Benitez as well, a fighter with a very similar style to Pea. That type of fighter was not good for him. It's all about matchups.

Bringing up how Duran did against Barkley is pointless, unless you think Dejesus could beat Barkley as well.

Also, Duran did NOT nearly beat Hagler. Hagler won about 10 rounds to 5.

[shawn_]

Agreed. I meant he showed frustration against slicksters or movers. Guys that would not allow him to fight within a close range or even a mid range for long. Guys like Benitez and Leonard. He got visibly frustrated and made taunting motions to those who fought him like this.

Against any other style, Duran would do as you said, and his head/upper body movement and defense are severely underrated.

But one of the key things you said goes into what I say. He was very much into controlling you, and against fighters of that style he reasonably got frustrated because he couldn't do it as effectively. It's easy to see with someone of his nature.

Benitez and Leonard were both 12lb above Durans best weight. He was fighting much much bigger men with huge reach advantages on him. A reach disadvantage is HUGE when you are facing ATG fighters like Leonard and Benitez.

Not to mention that Duran turned pro at 118lb.

[Wiley Hyena]

Duran also lost to Dejesus at LW. And he got owned by Benitez as well, a fighter with a very similar style to Pea. That type of fighter was not good for him. It's all about matchups.

Bringing up how Duran did against Barkley is pointless, unless you think Dejesus could beat Barkley as well.

Also, Duran did NOT nearly beat Hagler. Hagler won about 10 rounds to 5.

It's not pointless at all when you're talking about a fighter that started his pro career at 118. Betting against prime Duran at 135 was a sure way to lose your money my friend. You might in hind sight say you would have bet on Sweet Pea, but I damn sure know I wouldn't have!

[Sweet Pete]

Benitez and Leonard were both 12lb above Durans best weight. He was fighting much much bigger men with huge reach advantages on him. A reach disadvantage is HUGE when you are facing ATG fighters like Leonard and Benitez.

Not to mention that Duran turned pro at 118lb.

Duran was natural at 135, he turned pro at 16 as well, 118 was not his natural weight at all.

They were both above his best weight, but when faced with a fighter who's style he could cope with(Moore, Barkley, Cuevas, Palomino, hell even Hagler) he did quite well.

[Sweet Pete]

It's not pointless at all when you're talking about a fighter that started his pro career at 118. Betting against prime Duran at 135 was a sure way to lose your money my friend. You might in hind sight say you would have bet on Sweet Pea, but I damn sure know I wouldn't have!

He started his career at 118 because he was 16 years old! He was natural at 135.

[shawn_]

Duran was natural at 135, he turned pro at 16 as well, 118 was not his natural weight at all.

They were both above his best weight, but when faced with a fighter who's style he could cope with(Moore, Barkley, Cuevas, Palomino, hell even Hagler) he did quite well.

So did Pacman, you dont see him beating Kelly Pavlik do you?