was Roberto Duran really that great?

[Nostromo]

ROBERTO DURAN: Profile of a Gladiator

[vbtube]BdCeA-FpdiI[/vbtube]

[pelonxsoldier28]

just another dumbass kid taking away the greatness of the legends, who are you to question roberto's greatness, as the years go by the legends are being picked apart by half assed boxing fans that read about them off the internet and opinionated ******s. hands of stone will always be a legend

[wpink1]

Pelonxsoldier - Not a kid,,,was around for Durans dominance at lightweight, and for the many ass kicking that he got as he fought better fighters..than marcil, Buchanon.. To answer your question who am i to question Duran's, I am a fan that has the right to list my oplinion about him just as you do.

I have been asked to write for many boxing websites such as Cyberboxingzone, and ******** boxing I have boxed, sparred with fighters that have sparred with Leonard. Have been on cruises with Camacho's original trainer, and have a lot of insight on a lot things. That does not mean **** regarding my idea being any different or better than yours because it is not. Your opininon and mine weigh the same. I list that info just so you know that I am not some kid just looking at you tube and forming an opinion.

Personally I think Duran was a class act and is a alltime top fighter. It is funny how I have said that in every single post I have ever posted. I just do not rank him in my top ten, and I ACCURATELY point out that he was dominat at lightweight but over 40 of his 70 fighters at lightweight were vs fighters with eaither losing records or records similar to 18-14 or 8-6...etc. If you doubt it go to Boxrec and see for yourself. I did not make up these records, they are the actual fighters that Duran faced. It is one thing to fight these fighters early on but Duran continued to fight them after he became a champion. That is ridiculous and should not be ignored when people talk about his 70 wins at lightweigh vs 1 loss. I ask is it the same as a Mayweather or loenard who progressilvy always fought better and better fighters.

Why is it that Duran supporters get upset when I post the facts...Or because i dont hold him in the same godly esteem as they do. I dont get made when people go after Ray leonard's short career. That is a fact his career was shortened. So in that regard fighters like Duran, Hopkins, even Mayweather would be ranked ahead of him if we simply judged based on dominace at a certain weight class, longivity, defenses.

Personally I think you rate all time greatness on the following

Quality of top wins against fighters who were at their peak and most efficient weight
Dominance over a era\
Over all qualiy of resume
Titles won
Defenses
Chin
Boxing Skill
Defense
Ability to adapt style to fit the style necessary to win* if necessary.

Duran in most of these categories is top. Hwoever in two crucal categories he ranks good, and in the other he ranks average to poor. That is what lowers him in my ranking. Keep in mind we all have our own personal reasons why we like/prefer certain fighters, and we all rank them based on what is most important each of us individually.

I can not fault you if you rank Duran topsf or dominance at lightweight, etc.. I do ask the question if we are debating greatest of all time, is it fair to consider the fact that duran career includes the following:

Very very poor resume at light weight compared to fighters lkie Mayweather who never lost and did not fight a fighter with a losing record after his 9th fight or SRL who never fought a fighter with a losing record after his 5th fight.

6-4 record vs his top opposition

Was ko'd by hearns, and quit vs leoanrd

If you consider these things along witht the following

10 year dominace at lightweight clearly the class of the crop at lightweight
Moved up and Beat a prime Leonard at 147
won titles in 5 different classes in 3 decades fought in 5 decades...
At Middleweight (starting at 118) he went kneck and kneck with Hagler.barely losing.
70-1 at lightweight.. redeeming his loss with 2 wins vs that opponent.


I think you have a solid case for top pound per pound fighter. I just perosnly weight record vs best opposition, quality of resume including hsi poor group of fighters he faced being over 50% of his fights at lightweight, and when comparing him to fighters that have moved up more successfully.l.and also where undefeated at their orignal weight...never stopped...I rank him lower.

[mofo2]

I just got some new fights into
my collection. I got the one with
Roberto Duran against Tommy Herns.
My uncle keeps saying Duran was so great.
I saw the tape when Duran quit against Sugar
Ray too. Now seeing Tommy Herns knock him out
with one punch. Why do people keep saying Duran
is so great especially old people.

*** me your dumb or know **** all about boxing..........he's a legend.

[Nostromo]

wpink1: The greatest of men (from all walks of life) have their detractors, although these detractors are usually in the minute minority. So that in the grand scheme of things, your opinion of the latin legend is insignificant and of no consequence whatsoever.

The fact remains that Duran will continue to be regarded as one of the 10 greatest fighters in the history of boxing by the vast majority of intelligent life in the universe. You could lurk and troll on these forums with a zillion words from now 'til kingdom come, the legend of Roberto Duran is and forever will be etched in (hands of) stone...

[wpink1]

Nostromo I have one question. have you ever seen a fighter the quality of Duran who has over half of his fights (in durans case at lightwegiht)vs fighters with losing records of poor very poor records even after they were champions.

Do you think we deserve more than that from out champions than to have them sign a contract to fight some fighter with a losing record.

[Nostromo]

Nostromo I have one question. have you ever seen a fighter the quality of Duran who has over half of his fights (in durans case at lightwegiht)vs fighters with losing records of poor very poor records even after they were champions.

Do you think we deserve more than that from out champions than to have them sign a contract to fight some fighter with a losing record.

I have already given you the definative answer to any question you might raise conserning the career and ATG status of Mr. Duran. That answer covers all your parsing and disection of his record, because the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. The Roberto Duran mystique rises above "no mas," the KO at the hands Hearns, the quality of his opponents and his record. It's the intangibles, his persona, defensive skills, predatory intensity, etc., that places him in the top 10 by most accounts. Which brings me back to my ultimate answer to your detraction as repeated below...

wpink1: The greatest of men (from all walks of life) have their detractors, although these detractors are usually in the minute minority. So that in the grand scheme of things, your opinion of the latin legend is insignificant and of no consequence whatsoever.

The fact remains that Duran will continue to be regarded as one of the 10 greatest fighters in the history of boxing by the vast majority of intelligent life in the universe. You could lurk and troll on these forums with a zillion words from now 'til kingdom come, the legend of Roberto Duran is and forever will be etched in (hands of) stone...

[Left2body]

Pelonxsoldier - Not a kid,,,was around for Durans dominance at lightweight, and for the many ass kicking that he got as he fought better fighters..than marcil, Buchanon.. To answer your question who am i to question Duran's, I am a fan that has the right to list my oplinion about him just as you do.

I have been asked to write for many boxing websites such as Cyberboxingzone, and ******** boxing I have boxed, sparred with fighters that have sparred with Leonard. Have been on cruises with Camacho's original trainer, and have a lot of insight on a lot things. That does not mean **** regarding my idea being any different or better than yours because it is not. Your opininon and mine weigh the same. I list that info just so you know that I am not some kid just looking at you tube and forming an opinion.

Personally I think Duran was a class act and is a alltime top fighter. It is funny how I have said that in every single post I have ever posted. I just do not rank him in my top ten, and I ACCURATELY point out that he was dominat at lightweight but over 40 of his 70 fighters at lightweight were vs fighters with eaither losing records or records similar to 18-14 or 8-6...etc. If you doubt it go to Boxrec and see for yourself. I did not make up these records, they are the actual fighters that Duran faced. It is one thing to fight these fighters early on but Duran continued to fight them after he became a champion. That is ridiculous and should not be ignored when people talk about his 70 wins at lightweigh vs 1 loss. I ask is it the same as a Mayweather or loenard who progressilvy always fought better and better fighters.

Why is it that Duran supporters get upset when I post the facts...Or because i dont hold him in the same godly esteem as they do. I dont get made when people go after Ray leonard's short career. That is a fact his career was shortened. So in that regard fighters like Duran, Hopkins, even Mayweather would be ranked ahead of him if we simply judged based on dominace at a certain weight class, longivity, defenses.

Personally I think you rate all time greatness on the following

Quality of top wins against fighters who were at their peak and most efficient weight
Dominance over a era\
Over all qualiy of resume
Titles won
Defenses
Chin
Boxing Skill
Defense
Ability to adapt style to fit the style necessary to win* if necessary.

Duran in most of these categories is top. Hwoever in two crucal categories he ranks good, and in the other he ranks average to poor. That is what lowers him in my ranking. Keep in mind we all have our own personal reasons why we like/prefer certain fighters, and we all rank them based on what is most important each of us individually.

I can not fault you if you rank Duran topsf or dominance at lightweight, etc.. I do ask the question if we are debating greatest of all time, is it fair to consider the fact that duran career includes the following:

Very very poor resume at light weight compared to fighters lkie Mayweather who never lost and did not fight a fighter with a losing record after his 9th fight or SRL who never fought a fighter with a losing record after his 5th fight.

6-4 record vs his top opposition

Was ko'd by hearns, and quit vs leoanrd

If you consider these things along witht the following

10 year dominace at lightweight clearly the class of the crop at lightweight
Moved up and Beat a prime Leonard at 147
won titles in 5 different classes in 3 decades fought in 5 decades...
At Middleweight (starting at 118) he went kneck and kneck with Hagler.barely losing.
70-1 at lightweight.. redeeming his loss with 2 wins vs that opponent.


I think you have a solid case for top pound per pound fighter. I just perosnly weight record vs best opposition, quality of resume including hsi poor group of fighters he faced being over 50% of his fights at lightweight, and when comparing him to fighters that have moved up more successfully.l.and also where undefeated at their orignal weight...never stopped...I rank him lower.

Who was out there between 135lbs and 160lbs that Duran DIDN'T fight? If Duran was a modern fighter he would have the following guys on his resume:
PBF, Castillo, Hatton, Cotto, Cory Spinks, Oscar, Hopkins, Taylor and Pavlik. I am not exaggerating I truly believe he would've faced all of these guys.

That is not that different than Bucannon, DeJesus, Leonard, Benitez, Davey Moore, Hagler, Hearns, Iran Barkley

[Sweet Pea 50]

I just got some new fights into
my collection. I got the one with
Roberto Duran against Tommy Herns.
My uncle keeps saying Duran was so great.
I saw the tape when Duran quit against Sugar
Ray too. Now seeing Tommy Herns knock him out
with one punch. Why do people keep saying Duran
is so great especially old people.

Duran might have been the greatest at 135 to ever lace them up. Yes, he is that great.
But yeah, that right that Hearns hit him with... Hearns could of knocked out a bull with that punch. Devastating. Thats why you got to watch out for us long armed, wiry guys. We might be skinny, but we can generate a lot of pop.

[wpink1]

Nostromo - your correct he will forever be regarded at a top figher of all time, I have him rated as top also but not in my top 10. However in most respected polls he is and I will agree with that. I personally believe that you should consider that quality of his fights, but that is neither here nor there. We all have our list(s) and the part are interchangeable based on our own opinions.

No problem I respect each of yours.