Lennox good but not great!

[scap]

At the end of the day you can pick most people's records apart, even greats - whether it be Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson or Bowe. Listing a guys fights and criticising every one of them just stinks of hate if you ask me.

Your even more right than you know

[marvdave]

a loss certainly does not have to be the deciding factor...if you have his fights on tape then you tell me flat out that the DAvid Tua that fight Ike Ibeabuchi was the same DAvid Tua that fought LEnnox LEwis...

In my mind he was a shell of himself...he had a very short prime based upon his lack of training, he had no business being 245 against LL...oh and Tua lost against Ike and I said that was his prime...a loss (I scored the fight a draw and could have easily given the fight to Tuaman but I admit there was a bias on my part for the up and coming president.)

fair enough..I do agree Tua was heavier than his best against Lewis. I think styles make fights..as much as a cliche that is. Tua regardless of prime would not have been able to get close enough to land the shot against Lewis. I just get tired of all the negative **** thrown at Lewis. I'm not even a Lewis lover, just respect what he was able to accomplish. The Tua and Ike myths of greatness get very old. I hear more positive crap about those two "never was'" than I do about Lewis. Bottom line is that neither Tua or Ike proved anything. If Tua was great, he would have been in shape against Lewis and won.

as far as being the same fighter against Ike, I suppose not, but then again Ike is not the same guy as Lewis...again, styles.

[scap]

fair enough..I do agree Tua was heavier than his best against Lewis. I think styles make fights..as much as a cliche that is. Tua regardless of prime would not have been able to get close enough to land the shot against Lewis. I just get tired of all the negative **** thrown at Lewis. I'm not even a Lewis lover, just respect what he was able to accomplish. The Tua and Ike myths of greatness get very old. I hear more positive crap about those two "never was'" than I do about Lewis. Bottom line is that neither Tua or Ike proved anything. If Tua was great, he would have been in shape against Lewis and won.

as far as being the same fighter against Ike, I suppose not, but then again Ike is not the same guy as Lewis...again, styles.

Tua was most definately not great...I got tired a long time ago of wanting Tua to be champ more than David did himself. Ike was a amazing, when he fought Tua, Tua was like 29-0 and Ike was like 12-0 or some **** like that...he was still a baby and he did not have one weakness in the ring...I believe he would have improved and kept doing so.

Your right though neither can ever stack up too Lewis and his accomplishments...I hated that Mother****er for a long time but now I really miss him...2005 with all of the great fights that are already set would have been complete with a hw super fight...it is still going to be a great year but LL vs. VK would have been somehting!

By the way I slightly lean towards LEwis if that fight were to happen...very slightly

[marvdave]

Tua was most definately not great...I got tired a long time ago of wanting Tua to be champ more than David did himself. Ike was a amazing, when he fought Tua, Tua was like 29-0 and Ike was like 12-0 or some **** like that...he was still a baby and he did not have one weakness in the ring...I believe he would have improved and kept doing so.

Your right though neither can ever stack up too Lewis and his accomplishments...I hated that Mother****er for a long time but now I really miss him...2005 with all of the great fights that are already set would have been complete with a hw super fight...it is still going to be a great year but LL vs. VK would have been somehting!

By the way I slightly lean towards LEwis if that fight were to happen...very slightly

In another thread I mentioned that I thought it was funny that everyone bitches about the state of the heavyweights and thought people should miss Lewis instead of bad mouthing him. Thats why he is great for the divison. He would bring some excitement. As far as the rematch with VK, I still think it will happen. I have a hard time seeing Lewis getting back into fighting shape, but how could he resist the $. I'll hold judgement on the outcome untill I see what kind of shape Lenny gets in. It's a great fight styles wise. Two big lugs slugging it out..doesn't get any better than that.

[AintGottaClue]

why r u guys bitching about tua fighting lewis not in his prime who cares????? tua isnt great at all and he coulnt beat lewis anyway cause lewis would know he has to jab all night

[Sir_Jose]

Like I said When was the lAST TIME two legit great heavyweights were in there primes at the same time.

All the fights you named happend 30+ years ago and were pretty much in that one Ali, Foreman, Frazier era. No Tony Tucker is not a great fighter.

Bowe vs Holyfield was another, but the only reason Bowe vs Lewis didn't come off is because Bowe and his people didn't want to fight Lewis. No its not just Lewis' camp saying that its also Rock Newman Bowe's manager admitting he kept Bowe from Lewis.

You listed a ton of fights that Lewis won as reason to try and knock him. Does that makes sense to anybody?

No its not "fighting scared" its called boxing. When your 6'5 and have a telaphone pole reach its commen sense that you use your jab and stay out of range anything else would be foolish.

No Tua was never a volume puncher. Go back and look at his first fight with Rahman and his fight with Maskeave before Ike. Its pretty much him waiting around for his left hook to land. The fight with Ike happend like that because Ike forced the pace Like Marvdave said styles make fights.

[GasPed]

Again for the third ****ing time Tua was no where near his prime against Lennox...watch Tua fight Rock the first time and Ike...that was Tua at his best...Tua was a shell of himself when he finally got too fight LEwis which was years later...look at the weight differences and then watch the young tua and then come back here and tell me that LL fought Tua in his prime.

I don't think a lot of people have ever even seen Tua at his best 220's...so before telling me that LL fought a guy that was in his prime make sure you have seen the guy in his prime, thank you.

Yawn. You're right, your argument is still obtuse - even after the third time

Look, if you want to argue that Tua was not in his absolute peak fighting form at the time of his fight with Lewis, sure, fine, whatever. In fact, no one is ever at their absolute peak fighting form any time they fight, are they? But the fact is, the Tua that came to fight Lewis was coming off 10 straight wins (9 by KO) after his decision loss to Ike, so even if he wasn't at his peak, he was still pretty darn good.

Fact is, you could argue Lewis wasn't at his peak either when he fought Tua, or Ruddock or Holy or Tyson... ...but then all you're doing is deconstructing any basis for debate in the first place (e.g. Tua had a cold when he fought Ike so that fight's not valid, Holy had a rib injury in the 3rd Bowe fight so that one's not valid, etc. etc.).

The truth of the matter is that Lewis fought some pretty good boxers in his career and beat them all. Maybe they weren't at their tip-top best the night he fought them, but they were still pretty good, and he beat them. It's strange to me how you can't see that - but who knows, maybe the 4th time's a charm!

[Lefthookhappy19]

ANYONE'S record can be taken apart piece by piece and discredited. Lewis WAS a better heavyweight than Holyfield and ranks higher all time, but Holyfield is higher in a P4P sense because of his cruiserweight accomplishments. Holyfield was in the middle of his best spell as a heavyweight when Lewis fought him. Just take a look at Lewis's resume. Seriously, its pretty impressive the amount of very good fighters he beat. Pretty much every top 90s heavyweight except Bowe and we know what happened there.

[marvdave]

Yawn. You're right, your argument is still obtuse - even after the third time

Look, if you want to argue that Tua was not in his absolute peak fighting form at the time of his fight with Lewis, sure, fine, whatever. In fact, no one is ever at their absolute peak fighting form any time they fight, are they? But the fact is, the Tua that came to fight Lewis was coming off 10 straight wins (9 by KO) after his decision loss to Ike, so even if he wasn't at his peak, he was still pretty darn good.

Fact is, you could argue Lewis wasn't at his peak either when he fought Tua, or Ruddock or Holy or Tyson... ...but then all you're doing is deconstructing any basis for debate in the first place (e.g. Tua had a cold when he fought Ike so that fight's not valid, Holy had a rib injury in the 3rd Bowe fight so that one's not valid, etc. etc.).

The truth of the matter is that Lewis fought some pretty good boxers in his career and beat them all. Maybe they weren't at their tip-top best the night he fought them, but they were still pretty good, and he beat them. It's strange to me how you can't see that - but who knows, maybe the 4th time's a charm!

thats the second time in my life I've heard the term obtuse. Nice job! Never heard the word before Shawshank Redemption

guess I should have went to school more often

[pimpin2]

Only time will tell, but IMO lennox was a great champ, he didn't duck anyone and when hr fought his rematches he destroyed the comp. Greatest heavyweight jab since Larry Holmes.