Lennox good but not great!

[Sir_Jose]

How do you figure he beats Holyfield in his prime? Holyfield hurt Lewis bad a couple of times in their rematch and that Holyfield was way past his prime.

Holyfield ****ing murders Lewis prime for prime!

He never had Lewis hurt at any point in either fight.

If Micheal Moorer could outbox a "prime" Holyfield what makes you think Lewis couln't do it?

If Bowe could take 2/3 and KO a "Prime" Holyfield what makes you think Lewis couldn't?

Evander Holyfield was a tough guy, but he lost more big fights than he won and was far from unbeatable.

[MetalVomit]

How do you figure he beats Holyfield in his prime? Holyfield hurt Lewis bad a couple of times in their rematch and that Holyfield was way past his prime.

Holyfield ****ing murders Lewis prime for prime!

ex ****ing actly

[AintGottaClue]

for those of you who put lewis in the top 10

ali
foreman
holems
dempsley
louis
rocky M
tyson
fraizer
liston
johnson
pattersib
john l sullivan
walcott
charles
holyfield

( this r not in order just put them down as i remembered them

[MetalVomit]

Please name me the last time two legit all time great heavyweight fighters were in there primes at the same time?

He fought a ton of guys who were thought to be "prime" you just flat out refuse to reconize them. Mercer, Rudock, Golota, Briggs, Tua and Grant were all thought to be at there peak.

You try and knock Holyfield, but what you fail to realize is that at the time of that fight Holyfield was the WBA and IBF Heavyweight Champion of the World and was fighting aswell as had ever fought. Was there a bigger fight in boxing at that time than Holyfield vs Lewis? the answer would be no.


You also say he was brought along slowly, but again what you dont know is that by 20 pro fights he was already fighting for World Titles, hell Miguel Cotto and Jermain Taylor haven't even fought top ten guys yet.

Also you try and say he never fought Tyson in the 90's, but AGAIN what you fail to realize is that in 1996 Lennox Lewis was the #1 contender for Tyson and Mike Tyson chose to give up his belt and pay Lennox Lewis 5 Million dollars.

What do you mean it doesn't matter who didn't want the fight with Bowe? Of course it matters. You cant knock Lewis for never fighting Bowe whwen Bowe clearly didn't want any part of Lewis.

You make excellent points as you always do. "IF" doesnt count, but i still think "IF" they both fought in their primes, Holyfield would take out Lewis, and Holyfield was in his prime before the first Tyson fight, not at that time.

[AintGottaClue]

man alot of u guys get really defensive when lewis gets talked about i mean more then any other boxer once somehting is said about lewis its arrrrrrrrr ooo blah eck pff plip and **** liek that

[riz]

lol tru say sturm
i really started hating lewis after the tyson fight bcuz he gave up his IBF and WBA instead of fighting for it, and also i look at his career n to me its not all that impressive. he beats a past prime tyson and holyfield and thts bout it... andrew golata is not amazing hes just there. michael grant... that explains itself
rahman was not the best, but he kocked out lewis like that, obviously he loses in the rematch, but hes not great or anything

i hate lewis to be honest
but as a regualr boxing fan hes not near the top 10 of all time
ali
frazier
foreman
holyfield
bowe (holyfield fights made him)
marciano
louis
schmeling (RIP)
jersey joe walcott
mike tyson
ezzard charles

just random order

[AintGottaClue]

lol tru say sturm
i really started hating lewis after the tyson fight bcuz he gave up his IBF and WBA instead of fighting for it, and also i look at his career n to me its not all that impressive. he beats a past prime tyson and holyfield and thts bout it... andrew golata is not amazing hes just there. michael grant... that explains itself
rahman was not the best, but he kocked out lewis like that, obviously he loses in the rematch, but hes not great or anything

i hate lewis to be honest
but as a regualr boxing fan hes not near the top 10 of all time
ali
frazier
foreman
holyfield
bowe (holyfield fights made him)
marciano
louis
schmeling (RIP)
jersey joe walcott
mike tyson
ezzard charles

just random order

u missed a few just look at my list i thinmk i missed soem on there as well but u can put lewis int he top 25-30

[Torino]

I think Lewis is in the top 15 ................................ of champions that give up belts rather than defend their titles.

If he fought Tyson and Grant, and defended his titles against Byrd, and Ruiz then I would say top 20. He had plenty of time to fight all these guys, yet chose to fight only once a year and trash the IBF and WBA belts. He could have had his money, pleased the mob, and defended his titles.

Having said that, he doesn't belong in the same category as a champion that respects what the "championship title" represents.

[scap]

Please name me the last time two legit all time great heavyweight fighters were in there primes at the same time?

He fought a ton of guys who were thought to be "prime" you just flat out refuse to reconize them. Mercer, Rudock, Golota, Briggs, Tua and Grant were all thought to be at there peak.

You try and knock Holyfield, but what you fail to realize is that at the time of that fight Holyfield was the WBA and IBF Heavyweight Champion of the World and was fighting aswell as had ever fought. Was there a bigger fight in boxing at that time than Holyfield vs Lewis? the answer would be no.


You also say he was brought along slowly, but again what you dont know is that by 20 pro fights he was already fighting for World Titles, hell Miguel Cotto and Jermain Taylor haven't even fought top ten guys yet.

Also you try and say he never fought Tyson in the 90's, but AGAIN what you fail to realize is that in 1996 Lennox Lewis was the #1 contender for Tyson and Mike Tyson chose to give up his belt and pay Lennox Lewis 5 Million dollars.

What do you mean it doesn't matter who didn't want the fight with Bowe? Of course it matters. You cant knock Lewis for never fighting Bowe whwen Bowe clearly didn't want any part of Lewis.

You want heavyweight champs prime for prime huh...

Bowe vs. Holyfield, Foreman vs. Ali, Ali vs. Frazier, Frazier vs. Foreman, Ali vs. Liston, Tyson vs. Tucker, Johnson vs. Burns, Marciano vs. Charles...

Your right it is very tough too match guys prime for prime maybe I was being a bit hard on the big brit, then again maybe your a bit too defensive of the big brit.

As for Mercer...I stated that I thought he lost that fight and that Ray was at the very end of his prime, but you made your case...mine would be that LL lost that fight and when Mercer made a man to man bet of 50K for the rematch LL did not take it...he was fortunate to get that decision and wanted no part of MErcer one more time.

Golota...Andrew showed up to the fight just about when it started...beating Golota at anytiome has proved to be no big deal...the guy is a loose cannon and worse yet he is a quitter.

Briggs...****...BRiggs had LL seriously hurt in that fight as did a lot of fighters...it is too bad that Shannon's chin was as bad as a chin gets.

Ruddock- I will argue that was certainly not in his prime...Ruddock was never the same guy that we saw fight Tyson, plus Floyd PAtterson his new trainer was trying to turn the slugger into a boxer.

Tua...I have stated before that Tua in his prime was when he fought Ike...watch that fight again Tua does things in that fight that he has never done since...he was amazing...he was never the same after that fight and his weight ballooned...an effective Tua when in his prime was in the 220's, not 240 or 250's.

Michael Grant...Why even bring his name up...again watch Grants previous fight with Golota...the bell saved him from a savage KO...basically Grant was fighting the undisputed champ of the world coming off a horrible ko defeat...I hope I never see such an amature performance in a big fight again...Grant wanted that fight over with before he even stepped into the ring, but who could blame him he was basically ko'd in his previous fight...great matchmaking on team LL's part.

I fail to realize that Holy held the wba and IBF titles...hmmm I thought he had the NABF are you sure...**** in a-yeah it was a big fight but that does not mean Holy was in his prime...Lewis won the first and I felt was given the decision the second time based upon the outcome of the first fight...some agree some disagree. You know Holy was not in his prime and for that matter was never a big puncher but Lewis treated him like he was scared of him in both fights and squeaked them out over an older out of his prime fighter.

20th fight vying for a world title...His 20th fight was against a dude that was 19-4 and it was for the Commonwealth title and British title or some **** like that...maybe that is a real title to you but to me that is a title for guys like Julias Francis and Danny Williams...it means **** too me and most boxing cult fans-if you would like to hype it up then be my guest...Cotto has fought twice the competition in comparison to Lewis at their respective stages...**** it isn't even close.

You may be right about Bowe not wanting to fight and you may be right that Tyson was scared and thats why LL was payed off but what I can tell you is that fighters pay other fighters off all of the time for various reasons and champions dump belts all of the time for various reasons...I think you are right about Bowe he was a little yellow but then again you can't say for sure and neither can I cuz neither of us no ****..there are always two sides to a story and if you want to hole heartedly take the team Lennox story then be my guest...point is we both no **** when it comes to why those fights never materalized!

As for your boy Lennox...let's see here he was brutally kayoed with one shot against mediocre heavyweights like Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall....

Lennox was hurt so many ****ing times against average or past their prime fighters...the list includes

Frank Bruno (who was way past his prime and he had one just about every round in the fight, he had hurt Lewis in a few different rounds and had hurt him and was going in for the kill when Lewis caught him with of all punches the right hand)

Tommy Morrison certainly had Lewis doing the chicken dance early in that fight.

Shannon Briggs had Lewis in real trouble as well.

Ray Mercer broke LL's jaw and at the very least deserved a rematch...Jose all fighters can be *****'s at some point in their career...I agree Bowe was a ***** when he threw his belt in the garbage but LL was a ***** for not facing MErcer in a rematch of a fight that many thought he lost!

Henry Ackinwande-ya know for refusing to fight like big henry did if you watch that fight over ackinwande got screwed out of a kockdown in that fight...I dont think LL was seriously hurt but Henry knocked him down for sure!

Zeliko Mavrovic-watch this one in the seventh round old Zelko has Lewis hurt and is hammering away..it is too bad the guy really couldn't punch-it was funny watching this unknown who never deserved to be there play the role of the bully for at least one round.

Evander had Lewis stunned in both fights but I particularly remember the 1st fight-round number 3 which was the round that Holy predicted a knockout...he came out like a house of fire in that round and had Lewis in real trouble...it was the only excitement from Evander all night but again your hero was hurt!

David Tua-it was ewither the 3rd or 4th when Lewis was clipped by a wild left hook and went back to his stool on very unsteady legs...MAnny Steward is slapping LL in the face tryiung to revive him...Tua in his prime yeah right, watch Tua against Ike and tell me he was in his ****ing prime against LEwis.

Rahman-the second fight in the third round Rock hurt Lewis and never even knew it...he caught Lewis with a left hook and Lennox did a little chicken dance...Rock was in such awe of LL's jab that he did not throw a follow up punch for seven seconds..trust me I have watched this a 100x-so should you!

VK-hurt LL few times in this fight but most notably in the second...imagine that would have beeen Ike-it would have been over immediately.

My point here is this guy got hurt if you sneezed on him, granted when he lost he was hit with a couple devastating punches that not many if any could withstand but he got hit with them...all time greats did not.

I change my tune a bit thanks to you...after thinking about it a bit more LL bumps up a few spots and I could see him sitting at 10, but no higher.

You know your **** Jose-I don't question that, I just have never been a fan of a fighter who can't take a good shot and thats what Lewis can't do..take a good shot-all time greats should have a lot of things in their arsenals and one of those things should be a beard.

[GasPed]

In my post in Opinion Central, I said why I think LL ranks over Holy. Here's the deal - when I look at all the heavies Holy beat and compare them to the ones LL beat, LL wins. The only guys I can really give Holy props for beating are Bowe (who in turn beat him twice), Tyson (who wasn't in his prime any more), and maybe Mercer. LL beat prime Golota, prime Morrison, prime Ruddock, prime Tua, prime Briggs, prime Klitschko and a past prime Holy, Mercer and Tyson. That's a veritable murderer's row he took out.

Yeah, you can say he was trouble in this fight or that fight (and btw, Holy was in big trouble in many of the fights he won), but the point is, he won. So head to head, based on record, I gotta give Lewis the nod over Holy. And frankly, I think he's a top 10 heavy based on that record too.