Hopkins or Toney - who was better?

[-PBP-]

Hopkins by far. People put too much weight on old "smash n grab" Nard and ignore how much more complete of a fighter he was in his prime.

[IronDanHamza]

Hopkins looks versatile until he isnt imposing his deliberate pace and style on someone.

we can agree to disagree...I pick toney and his defense and counterpunching was superior to hopkins imo

Hopkins lost to all his best opposition, whereas Toney beat his. Like I said, Hopkins was more disciplined, Hopkins dealt with variety of styles better and actually beat fighters he couldnt out manuver or outskill like Nunn and McCallum, Hopkins lost to guys pre prime, prime and past prime with similar attributes. They were more active, had speed and better movement than he did. Toney showed he could overcome that, Hopkins didnt. He did beat Pascal but Pascal didnt have the skill or jabs of dawson, Jones, Calzaghe, etc...he was a good athlete.

Toney beat his best opposition opponents?

What you mean getting soundly beaten by Tiberi and Thadzi? Getting his ears boxed off and getting s gift decision against Reggie Johnson? Losing twice to Montell Griffin? Roy Jones dishing out one of the most painfully one sided fights of that era seemingly in first gear the whole fight? Scraping decisions against Sosa.

He beat Nunn after getting his arse kicked for the entire fight and he sc****d a decision against McCallum that most felt he lost.

What's his best win besides that? Prince Charles? Toney has zero dominant wins over top level opponents. Zero.

Hopkins looked versatile in that situation. Toney never looked versatile ever. He's a limited fighter hence the loss's and gifts at every level he fought at, from the bottom to the top.

Sosa, Williams, Tiberi, Jones, McCallum x2, Griffin x2, Thadzi, Johsnon you could very easily argue he lost all of those fights.

There is no way Hopkins would ever lose to a Tiberi or Thadzi or draw with Williams etc when he was a cintended level fighter or better.

[*TonyMontana*]

Hopkins easily....he's one of the greatest

[therealpugilist]

Toney beat his best opposition opponents?

What you mean getting soundly beaten by Tiberi and Thadzi? Getting his ears boxed off and getting s gift decision against Reggie Johnson? Losing twice to Montell Griffin? Roy Jones dishing out one of the most painfully one sided fights of that era seemingly in first gear the whole fight? Scraping decisions against Sosa.

He beat Nunn after getting his arse kicked for the entire fight and he sc****d a decision against McCallum that most felt he lost.

What's his best win besides that? Prince Charles? Toney has zero dominant wins over top level opponents. Zero.

Hopkins looked versatile in that situation. Toney never looked versatile ever. He's a limited fighter hence the loss's and gifts at every level he fought at, from the bottom to the top.

Sosa, Williams, Tiberi, Jones, McCallum x2, Griffin x2, Thadzi, Johsnon you could very easily argue he lost all of those fights.

There is no way Hopkins would ever lose to a Tiberi or Thadzi or draw with Williams etc when he was a cintended level fighter or better.

blah blah blah....its clear Toney beat better overall opposition and dealt with certain styles better.

Hopkins always took calculated risks.....winky and pavlik at 170....former ww champions, washed up guys....when he fought elite guys he often struggled or lost

COULDVE SHOULDVE WOULDVE aint done shiyt

I doubt Hopkins couldve beat McCallum and Nunn.....he doesnt do well with tricky guys and movement.

[IronDanHamza]

Man I love your posts. I always think you're a bit harsh on Toney but in regards to him vs Hopkins, I think you are spot on. I'll go to my grave thinking McCallum beat Toney, both times imo(Third fight was pointless), and McCallum was well past his prime.

Agreed 100%.

I had the first one a draw. The second one I had McCallum winning quite well. It was close but clear IMO.

I also had Reggie Johnson boxing Toney's ears off. That was a gift aswell.

However the Griffin fights I had one a piece. But, both were close fights that could have gone either way. Toney simply couldn't defend a jab. Couldn't stop it from landing and couldn't adjust to it at all. Then again Toney has never shown any ability to make adjustments. Another massive advtange for Hopkins who is great at making adjustments mid fight.

[therealpugilist]

Agreed 100%.

I had the first one a draw. The second one I had McCallum winning quite well. It was close but clear IMO.

I also had Reggie Johnson boxing Toney's ears off. That was a gift aswell.

However the Griffin fights I had one a piece. But, both were close fights that could have gone either way. Toney simply couldn't defend a jab. Couldn't stop it from landing and couldn't adjust to it at all. Then again Toney has never shown any ability to make adjustments. Another massive advtange for Hopkins who is great at making adjustments mid fight.

what adjustments did Hopkins make vs Jones, Calzaghe, Dawson, Taylor (2x), Calzghe, Kovalev?

He fights a deliberate style, can make it ugly but has a tight defense but he always falls short vs more athletic busier guys


Hopkins is hell of overrated as a tactician and has never had to deal with some with the know how of McCallum....Toney was a young fighter fighting an all time great

Hopkins never fought a middleweight who could box like Johnson as well

Hopkins resume at 160 is more about the quantity instead of quality...Toney has the edge in quality opponents and best wins.

[IronDanHamza]

blah blah blah....its clear Toney beat better overall opposition and dealt with certain styles better.

Hopkins always took calculated risks.....winky and pavlik at 170....former ww champions, washed up guys....when he fought elite guys he often struggled or lost

COULDVE SHOULDVE WOULDVE aint done shiyt

I doubt Hopkins couldve beat McCallum and Nunn.....he doesnt do well with tricky guys and movement.

It is absolutely not clear at all. Toney did not beat better overall opposition at all and he certainly didn't do it in a more dominant fashion.

I would not be surprised if the 170 versions of Wright and Pavlik beat Toney. He's lost and struggled with lesser opponents than them. You say When Hopkins fought the elite he struggled...ok...Toney didn't even have to fight the elite to struggle. James Toney lost and struggled to guys who weren't even ranked in the top 20.

Shoulda woulda coulda? Are you actually serious? Should Woulda Coulda SUMS UP Toney's career to an absolute tee. "Toney woulda be the GOAT If he wasn't a fat lazy moron" "Toney coulda beat anyone if he was in shape but unfortunately he was NEVER in shape"

Hopkins actually did stuff. Hopkins built a great career, Hopkins broke records. Hopkins had a career Toney can only fantasise about.

[mick1303]

Toney was more talented and gifted.

Hopkins was more dedicated and trained better.

At their peaks toney whoops Hopkins but toney was rarely at his best.

It is hard to argue who is "better", since they had different opposition except Jones. In that single instance Jones utterly embarassed Toney, but Hopkins lost with respectable 8-4 score, or even 7-5. Hopkins himself was pretty good mover and I think he would handle James pretty much the same way Jones did, maybe not that flashy and spectacular, but with the same efficiency. Used his movement and reach and potshotted Toney to wide UD.
But if Hopkins would decide that he may "go for the kill" and start engaging with James, this is where he could get in trouble. But his chin is incomparably better than Nunn's... so I think he still wins even in this scenario.

[IronDanHamza]

what adjustments did Hopkins make vs Jones, Calzaghe, Dawson, Taylor (2x), Calzghe, Kovalev?

He fights a deliberate style, can make it ugly but has a tight defense but he always falls short vs more athletic busier guys


Hopkins is hell of overrated as a tactician and has never had to deal with some with the know how of McCallum....Toney was a young fighter fighting an all time great

Hopkins never fought a middleweight who could box like Johnson as well

Hopkins resume at 160 is more about the quantity instead of quality...Toney has the edge in quality opponents and best wins.

What the hell is a "deliberate" style? I have never heard that term in my life.

Hopkins made adjustments mid fight numerous times. I have never seen James Toney make a single adjustment ever.

You keep bringing up his loss's. Who's loss's and poor performances are worse Hopkins or Toney's? Hopkins lost to top level opponents. James Toney lost to Dave Tiberi and Drake Thazdi.

Hopkins MW resume is about quantity, ok. And there's no way James Toney would go through that resume undefeated. No chance in hell.

[-PBP-]

This poll is flat out disrespectful. James Toney is underrated by the mainstream media but overrated by a lot of hardcore boxing fans.