Hopkins or Toney - who was better?

[!! Shawn]

Peak for peak, Toney... but as an over all package, hopkins.

Toney knew all the tricks in the book and had the physical attributes to use them to destroy you.

Hopkins, knew all the tricks in the book, and had the mind to put them together into a cohesive plan to beat you.

[IronDanHamza]

Yes it was Roy and one other fighter I can't recall the name of right now. Roy said his fight with Hopkins was tougher because Hopkins was the dirtiest fighter had ever faced. Just because you have a harder time with a guy does not make him better than someone else. For example, Mayweather had a harder time with Maidana than he did Pacquiao but we all know who the better fighter is.

Oh yes, and Freddie Roach who trained both Toney and Hopkins said Toney was better. Roach went on to say that Toney was more naturally gifted than Pacquiao and if it wasn't for his lack of discipline could have been the greatest fighter of all time.

So Roy Jones said Toney was better than Hopkins despite the fact he embarrassed him to a laughable extent? Ok...

I never said it didn't, you brought up "fighters who fought both said he's better"

Yes I know, coulda woulda shoulda, story of James Toney's career. How is it possible to know? Him being "better" is based off nothing but sheer fantasy. He did nothing in the ring to suggest it.

[therealpugilist]

Hopkins was more disciplined

Toney was the better overall natural talent....skill wise they are near equals but toney was the better athlete, more explosive, more power, better hand speed and reflexes.

I just dont see Hopkins being able to compete at a high level past 175 like toney did. That gives him the edge.

He is a former middleweight who could compete world class heavyweights at an advanced age.

Thats some all time great stuff. Takes a lot of skill and durability and it will be decades before we see other former middleweights do this or attempt this like he did and also roy jones

I love hopkins but he was not special in his prime like toney and especially jones

[therealpugilist]

So Roy Jones said Toney was better than Hopkins despite the fact he embarrassed him to a laughable extent? Ok...

I never said it didn't, you brought up "fighters who fought both said he's better"

Yes I know, coulda woulda shoulda, story of James Toney's career. How is it possible to know? Him being "better" is based off nothing but sheer fantasy. He did nothing in the ring to suggest it.

styles makes fights

anyway as far as skills and natural ability he has more natural ability than Hopkins....speed, power, reflexes and also his he had success in the game over 175.

that jirov vs toney fight was a classic

Toney beat some very good fighters and Mike McCallum who toney beat near his prime is a better fighter than everyone hopkins fought at 160 outside jones. Difference is, Toney won and beat an all time great fighter from 154-160. Hopkins atg were former welterweights who started below 147. Also michael nunn is a better fighter than anyone hopkins fought at 160. Nunn was a beast.

Hopkins fought a lot of title fights but his opponents were not very good and his best wins are over washed up former champions like simon brown, john david jackson and former ww like brown, tito, and dlh

Toney was more skilled than Hopkins, Hopkins was more disciplined but head to head, prime for prime I take Toney.

Hopkins took calculated risks and always lost to fighters who could match his skill level but were better athletes....i.e. Chad Dawson, Jones, Taylor, calzaghe, etc. Hopkins doesnt have the style to defeat Toney

He competed with world class heavyweights and in no point in time do i ever see hopkins being able to do this.

[IronDanHamza]

styles makes fights

anyway as far as skills and natural ability he has more natural ability than Hopkins....speed, power, reflexes and also his he had success in the game over 175.

that jirov vs toney fight was a classic

Toney beat some very good fighters and Mike McCallum who toney beat near his prime is a better fighter than everyone hopkins fought at 160 outside jones. Difference is, Toney won and beat an all time great fighter from 154-160. Hopkins atg were former welterweights who started below 147. Also michael nunn is a better fighter than anyone hopkins fought at 160. Nunn was a beast.

Hopkins fought a lot of title fights but his opponents were not very good and his best wins are over washed up former champions like simon brown, john david jackson and former ww like brown, tito, and dlh

Toney was more skilled than Hopkins, Hopkins was more disciplined but head to head, prime for prime I take Toney.

Hopkins took calculated risks and always lost to fighters who could match his skill level but were better athletes....i.e. Chad Dawson, Jones, Taylor, calzaghe, etc. Hopkins doesnt have the style to defeat Toney

He competed with world class heavyweights and in no point in time do i ever see hopkins being able to do this.

James Toney is no where near as skilled as Hopkins. It's not even remotely close in that catergory.

Hopkins is versatile, he can box off the back foot, Toney can not. He can cut off the ring, Toney can not. He can fight inside just as well as Toney. Hopkins has an extremely high ring IQ, Toney does not. Hopkins has a better defense than Toney despite (misinformed) popular belief.

Well #1, I don't think Toney beat McCallum the second time I think McCallum should have won. Secondly, you say Hopkins opposition wasn't very good yet many of those names at MW are better than the likes of Dave Tiberi and Drake Thazdi who beat Toney clearly and the likes of Sosa, Williams etc who Toney barely even beat.

Speculation whether Hopkins could go up to Heavyweight and not beat any decent Heavyweights but maybe if he was juiced like Toney was then he might.

[therealpugilist]

James Toney is no where near as skilled as Hopkins. It's not even remotely close in that catergory.

Hopkins is versatile, he can box off the back foot, Toney can not. He can cut off the ring, Toney can not. He can fight inside just as well as Toney. Hopkins has an extremely high ring IQ, Toney does not. Hopkins has a better defense than Toney despite (misinformed) popular belief.

Well #1, I don't think Toney beat McCallum the second time I think McCallum should have won. Secondly, you say Hopkins opposition wasn't very good yet many of those names at MW are better than the likes of Dave Tiberi and Drake Thazdi who beat Toney clearly and the likes of Sosa, Williams etc who Toney barely even beat.

Speculation whether Hopkins could go up to Heavyweight and not beat any decent Heavyweights but maybe if he was juiced like Toney was then he might.

Hopkins looks versatile until he isnt imposing his deliberate pace and style on someone.

we can agree to disagree...I pick toney and his defense and counterpunching was superior to hopkins imo

Hopkins lost to all his best opposition, whereas Toney beat his. Like I said, Hopkins was more disciplined, Hopkins dealt with variety of styles better and actually beat fighters he couldnt out manuver or outskill like Nunn and McCallum, Hopkins lost to guys pre prime, prime and past prime with similar attributes. They were more active, had speed and better movement than he did. Toney showed he could overcome that, Hopkins didnt. He did beat Pascal but Pascal didnt have the skill or jabs of dawson, Jones, Calzaghe, etc...he was a good athlete.

[DreamerUSA]

James Toney is no where near as skilled as Hopkins. It's not even remotely close in that catergory.

Hopkins is versatile, he can box off the back foot, Toney can not. He can cut off the ring, Toney can not. He can fight inside just as well as Toney. Hopkins has an extremely high ring IQ, Toney does not. Hopkins has a better defense than Toney despite (misinformed) popular belief.

Well #1, I don't think Toney beat McCallum the second time I think McCallum should have won. Secondly, you say Hopkins opposition wasn't very good yet many of those names at MW are better than the likes of Dave Tiberi and Drake Thazdi who beat Toney clearly and the likes of Sosa, Williams etc who Toney barely even beat.

Speculation whether Hopkins could go up to Heavyweight and not beat any decent Heavyweights but maybe if he was juiced like Toney was then he might.

Man I love your posts. I always think you're a bit harsh on Toney but in regards to him vs Hopkins, I think you are spot on. I'll go to my grave thinking McCallum beat Toney, both times imo(Third fight was pointless), and McCallum was well past his prime.

[New England]

hopkins accomplished more in his career.

[M Bison]

Hopkins was better he was more consistent with his approach and you genuinely knew what you were getting with him.
Consistency
Better training
More stand out wins

I have little doubt that Hopkins would have beat up on Toney at any point of his career.

[{Pito}]

styles makes fights

anyway as far as skills and natural ability he has more natural ability than Hopkins....speed, power, reflexes and also his he had success in the game over 175.

that jirov vs toney fight was a classic

Toney beat some very good fighters and Mike McCallum who toney beat near his prime is a better fighter than everyone hopkins fought at 160 outside jones. Difference is, Toney won and beat an all time great fighter from 154-160. Hopkins atg were former welterweights who started below 147. Also michael nunn is a better fighter than anyone hopkins fought at 160. Nunn was a beast.

Hopkins fought a lot of title fights but his opponents were not very good and his best wins are over washed up former champions like simon brown, john david jackson and former ww like brown, tito, and dlh

Toney was more skilled than Hopkins, Hopkins was more disciplined but head to head, prime for prime I take Toney.

Hopkins took calculated risks and always lost to fighters who could match his skill level but were better athletes....i.e. Chad Dawson, Jones, Taylor, calzaghe, etc. Hopkins doesnt have the style to defeat Toney

He competed with world class heavyweights and in no point in time do i ever see hopkins being able to do this.

Perfectly said, completely agree. Toney by 10 country, city, forest, jungle, desert miles