Hopkins or Toney - who was better?

[Madison Boxing]

Toney for sure

[CatchAndShoot]

And he was 24 when Dave Tiberi beat him from pillar to post.

He was super drained for that fight, had the flu, and had cramps for the 2nd half of the fight. That was quite possibly the worst Toney's ever looked in the ring, ever. The guy was tired after the 2nd round.

He outgrew the division at that point, and shouldn't have been fighting at MW. For God's sakes look at how he's throwing his punches in that fight. You couldn't have asked for a better opportunity to beat James Toney.

One of those really really bad nights that fighters have to go through in their career.

[Lester Tutor]

And he was 24 when Dave Tiberi beat him from pillar to post.

Tiberi didn't beat Toney by any means. At best it should've been a DRAW for Toney admitting his difficulty making weight as he looked exhausted in the fight and in the same year going to 168.

That's the problem, Toney's exhaustion translated to casual boxing fans thinking he was HURT. It was one of the worst ABC Sports commentaries I've ever heard that didn't know jack sht about boxing saying Toney was hurt.

Those commentators didn't know anything about rope'a'dope which Toney even then was highly skilled at. There was about 95% commentary never mentioning landed shots by Toney as it was Ward vs Gatti material. When Toney attempted haymakers and missed they said Toney was losing wtf. Punchstats alone from that fight will tell you both engaged. I had more rounds for Toney in general because he landed cleaner shots and used his jab on the backfoot.

All Tiberi was bum rush forward like an amateur Maidana but with more fuel like a Porter judt landing shots on the arms. As much as Tiberi pushed forward Toney was able to push back and fight.

You heard commentary saying "Toney has switched Southpaw which must be a sign that Toney is losing" wtff.

6th round ridiculous change of gloves and Toney comes back to spark up the action boxing nicely where who knows wtf the commentators are talking about making HBO commenary levels above..

Tiberi showed heart but ABC Sports back then were idiots that didnt know jack sht about boxing, at least for that bout. The post ring interviews they disrespect Toney saying it was a disgrace. I give Tiberi credit, but Toney landed nice uppercuts and 1-2 combinations never mentioned.

Worst commentary bouts for sure. Toney is the type of guy to rather say a draw is good as a loss, but no way in hell did Tiberi hurt him. Toney is a juggernaut and has proved the chin of time.

Girlscout commentary that night.

[CatchAndShoot]

Tiberi didn't beat Toney by any means. At best it should've been a DRAW for Toney admitting his difficulty making weight as he looked exhausted in the fight and in the same year going to 168.

That's the problem, Toney's exhaustion translated to casual boxing fans thinking he was HURT. It was one of the worst ABC Sports commentaries I've ever heard that didn't know jack sht about boxing saying Toney was hurt.

Those commentators didn't know anything about rope'a'dope which Toney even then was highly skilled at. There was about 95% commentary never mentioning landed shots by Toney as it was Ward vs Gatti material. When Toney attempted haymakers and missed they said Toney was losing wtf. Punchstats alone from that fight will tell you both engaged. I had more rounds for Toney in general because he landed cleaner shots and used his jab on the backfoot.

All Tiberi was bum rush forward like an amateur Maidana but with more fuel like a Porter judt landing shots on the arms. As much as Tiberi pushed forward Toney was able to oush back and fight.

You heard commentary saying "Toney has switched Southpaw which must be a sign that Toney is losing" wtff.

6th round ridiculous change of gloves and Toney comes back to spark up the action boxing nicely where who knows wtf the commentators are talking about making HBO commenary levels above..

Tiberi showed heart but ABC Sports back then were idiots that didnt know jack sht about boxing, at least for that bout. The post ring interviews they disrespect Toney saying it was a disgrace. I give Tiberi credit, but Toney landed nice uppercuts and 1-2 combinations never mentioned.

Worst commentary bouts for sure. Toney is the type of guy to rather say a draw is good as a loss, but no way in hell did Tiberi hurt him. Toney is a juggernaut and has proved the chin of time.

Girlscout commentary that night.

He literally looked drunk in that fight.

[Lester Tutor]

He literally looked drunk in that fight.

That commentary was worse than Lampley and Merchant. That's really bad. People have no idea

[Real King Kong]

Prime toney beats prime hopkins imo. I feel like hopkins gets a bit overrated by so called boxing purists.

[CatchAndShoot]

That commentary was worse than Lampley and Merchant. That's really bad. People have no idea

Amateur night

[boliodogs]

They were both great. The biggest difference is Hopkins was always in terrific shape and fought with 100% of his ability. Toney was great when he was mentally and physically in top condition but he had some sub par performances due to lack of proper training. In the latter part of his career he could still fight amazingly well for the grossly overweight fighter he became. Today Hopkins is still sharp both mentally and physically and still is not an ounce overweight. Toney is fatter than ever and you can barely understand him when he talks. My vote is for Hopkins being better. He held the middleweight title for ten years and 20 successful defenses before losing two debatable decisions to Taylor at 40 years old. How long could Toney hang on to any title?

[Johnwoo8686]

Hopkins by a country mile. Not even close to arguable.

And that goes for career, skills AND talent.

I can't even begin to fathom how one sided a Hopkins vs Toney fight would be.

I usually agree with your posts but have to disagree with this one, Toney was better. Even people who fought both Toney and Hopkins agreed that Toney was better. Hopkins has even admitted that Toney had more natural talent than he did. However, Hopkins had far more discipline and therefore had greater longevity.

[Larry the boss]

Hopkins by a country mile. Not even close to arguable.

And that goes for career, skills AND talent.

I can't even begin to fathom how one sided a Hopkins vs Toney fight would be.

I agree Toney is to inconstant to beat Hopkins...he had a lot of natural talent but lacked discipline and only fought in spots..He seemed to lose focus in the ring