Do you think Andre Ward is more skilled than Mayweather?

[MurkaMan]

Actually the only fighter Floyd fighters that had a reach advantage on him were Shane Mosley and Oscar De La Hoya. Floyd's reach of 72" is very long for WW, and lightweight it was ridiculous.

I mean here are the reaches of his most meaningful fights.

Mayweathers 72" reach

vs

70 in alvarez
67 in cotto
67 in Marquez
65 in Hatton
70 in Corrales
68 in Berto
67 in Pacquiao
69 in castillo
70 in Ortiz
70 in Guerrero

Those 10 opponents had an average reach of 67.3" compared to Floyd's 72" reach, thats an average reach advantage of almost 4 inches... That is quite a massive reach advantage. If you think I pulled the number out of my ass, go google for yourself. But dont drink the koolaid saying Floyd was at some sort of a reach disadvantage. He was in most cases, at a MASSIVE advantage. It would be even worse if we started to factor in the smaller weight guys like Jesus Chavez.

Only ones two with reach advantages on Floyd were
Mosley with 74"
and Oscar with 73"

Where did these stats come from? If you read my comment, you would notice that I said Boxrec and Tail of the tape, or Google, as you stated, dont know what their talking about! He has ZERO reach advantage! Its NO WAY his arms are longer than Ghost and Canelo! His arms are ALWAYS shorter than everyone he faced!

I judge based off of when they are in the ring! Ghost and Canelo's bigazz, towered over him and their arms were way longer! As I stated, Pac and JMM are the only ones he was taller than and had longer arms than!

I have never paid attention to those stats because they dont measure them every single fight! They probably measured them as soon as they turned pro! But they weigh them every fight unless the fighters opp out! Mayweather is 15lbs smaller than everyone he faces, and looks very small in the ring! They claim Floyd is taller than Ghost and Canelo, bullshiet! He never has a size advantage, or reach advantage, which is why I have him being top 3 ATG!

The disadvantages he faced being a 130lb fighter, and going up in weight to destroy men 2 times his size!

[LacedUp]

lol no. Not even close at all

[!! Shawn]

Where did these stats come from? If you read my comment, you would notice that I said Boxrec and Tail of the tape, or Google, as you stated, dont know what their talking about! He has ZERO reach advantage! Its NO WAY his arms are longer than Ghost and Canelo! His arms are ALWAYS shorter than everyone he faced!

I judge based off of when they are in the ring! Ghost and Canelo's bigazz, towered over him and their arms were way longer! As I stated, Pac and JMM are the only ones he was taller than and had longer arms than!

I have never paid attention to those stats because they dont measure them every single fight! They probably measured them as soon as they turned pro! But they weigh them every fight unless the fighters opp out! Mayweather is 15lbs smaller than everyone he faces, and looks very small in the ring! They claim Floyd is taller than Ghost and Canelo, bullshiet! He never has a size advantage, or reach advantage, which is why I have him being top 3 ATG!

The disadvantages he faced being a 130lb fighter, and going up in weight to destroy men 2 times his size!

Those were all boxrec.

[BillyBoxing]

Yes. Ward have a better all around boxing skills. His defense it's top notch and his offense is really good too. He can fight outside and inside where mayweather just have an extremely good defense.

I totally agree with this post.

Ward is the most complete fighter in the game along with Grandpa Nard.

Floyd has great boxing skills, but just like Roy back in his prime, that's mainly his speed and his reflexes that make him almost untouchable.

[!! Shawn]

I totally agree with this post.

Ward is the most complete fighter in the game along with Grandpa Nard.

Floyd has great boxing skills, but just like Roy back in his prime, that's mainly his speed and his reflexes that make him almost untouchable.

Agreed. Which is why we saw Floyd start to not look like Floyd when is reflexes started to fade, while Bernard was still spoiling parties in to his late 40's.

[sunny31]

Again, people are ignoring the difference in size. Smaller guys have an edge in stamina, "explosiveness", opponent punches aren't as hard so their chins look better, etc. To not scale it on a P4P level is like saying "Ward is much stronger" and not accounting for the size difference. Picture Mayweather at 6'1" and fighting the guys Ward fought, he would not look like the Floyd we know at 5'8". You really have to scale it rather than make linear comparisons.



If time is no boundary then maybe we can find boxers who trump all 3. I'm trying to stick with guys who have fought in the last 30 years.

I am not ignoring the difference in size, you have a point to some respect as I agree it is harder to achieve such precise movements the bigger you are and go through weights the higher you get and generally fighters have higher outputs in the lower divisions. BUT you make a point of smaller fighters not punching as hard so their chins look better? How about the fact that bigger men are able to sustain bigger shots and have better chins? You are ignoring one whole side of the argument, thus detracting from your whole point. Pound for pound doesn't just factor the attributes which help suit your argument it applies to everything being relative and equal. Plus one thing you seem to have ignored is that Floyd was taking punches from fighters at least 2 or 3 natural weights bigger than him, and these guys were huge dangerous punchers at those higher weights to boot. The one thing I will give you is as you go up in weight the ability to change a fight with one punch does become more evident because the human head is not designed to be hit with that much force, but I would say that applies to heavyweight more than anything else.

Its all opinion and speculation anyway, because if you theorise Floyd as a fighter of similar stature and size to Ward - what type of power does he have at that weight? You would assume he would have the relative type of power he had in his first 2 or 3 weight divisions so 140 or below as Ward is currently in his second weight division 7 pounds up from his original 168. 7 pounds up from Floyd's original fighting weight would be around 137, at that weight and against fighters of that size Floyd had dangerous power capable of stopping fighters with anything less than a stellar chin.

I also don't understand why you think Floyd wouldn't be able to do the things he could at higher weights if he was a bigger fighter? The angles don't change, he would still be faster than everyone else, he would still be a defensive genius, he would still have all the attributes he does now just in a bigger frame. In many ways his style may have worked better at higher weights I think. I don't underestimate Ward at all, he is currently one of my fav fighters. I grew up in the bay area and have supported him since Kessler, but I also call a spade a spade and Ward just is not as precise or quite as accurate as Floyd with his skills, and those skills and that talent took him through 5 weight divisions or lets say 24 pounds without defeat. That is just my opinion and I am not ignoring their relative size difference and what that entails.

Put it his way and its an easier comparison, I don't think Ward was quite as pinpoint or as fast as Roy Jones for example nor did he hit as hard Roy. I would say Floyd is closer to Roy in terms of talent then Ward. Ward is a great talent and a very smart fighter - but Roy and Floyd are phenom's, once in a generation and between the 3 of them I still think Floyd shades it as the most complete fighter because he is kind of a hybrid of the other two in my opinion, although in his prime Roy may have been the hardest to beat. But you literally find yourself nitpicking between these guys because you have to, as they are that great that there is very little to criticise or separate them.

[BillyBoxing]

Where did these stats come from? If you read my comment, you would notice that I said Boxrec and Tail of the tape, or Google, as you stated, dont know what their talking about! He has ZERO reach advantage! Its NO WAY his arms are longer than Ghost and Canelo! His arms are ALWAYS shorter than everyone he faced!

I judge based off of when they are in the ring! Ghost and Canelo's bigazz, towered over him and their arms were way longer! As I stated, Pac and JMM are the only ones he was taller than and had longer arms than!

I have never paid attention to those stats because they dont measure them every single fight! They probably measured them as soon as they turned pro! But they weigh them every fight unless the fighters opp out! Mayweather is 15lbs smaller than everyone he faces, and looks very small in the ring! They claim Floyd is taller than Ghost and Canelo, bullshiet! He never has a size advantage, or reach advantage, which is why I have him being top 3 ATG!

The disadvantages he faced being a 130lb fighter, and going up in weight to destroy men 2 times his size!

Hell no, Floyd isn't a tall guy but inherited senior's reach.

His uncle was also know for having a tremendous reach.

Mayweathers are built like spiders lol

HBO or boxrec: numbers are little differents, but in both case, I always was amazed by Floyd's datas (arm lenght and reach of 72').
Now, maybe the Mayweathers crew gave fake numbers.
But Floyd's arms/his height always looked very long to me.


Whatever, boxing isn't a reach/size contest, Mayweather is before anything, a tremendous competitor and an amazing athlete.

[PivotandRoll]

Andre Ward is closer to Carlos Molina or Herrera tbh. Floyd does everything better than Ward. Ward doesn't have his reflexes or speed. He can't adjust as well as Floyd. Ward can't even throw his right hand straight and you are comparing him to Floyd?

Floyd at his best is jaw dropping amazing with cat like reflexes combined with technical excellence.

Ward is actually quite overrated....He HAS to beat you with his left hand.

[PivotandRoll]

I totally agree with this post.

Ward is the most complete fighter in the game along with Grandpa Nard.

Floyd has great boxing skills, but just like Roy back in his prime, that's mainly his speed and his reflexes that make him almost untouchable.

The most complete fighter in the game can't hurt you with his back hand? That is seriously some of the dumbest ***** I've ever heard anyone say.

You honestly think that Ward is as talented or skilled as Gamboa or Rigo? Jesus do you really have to be a black American to get credit around here?

[BillyBoxing]

Just talking about skills, I would say Ward is a more complete fighter, better tactician too.

Mayweather is more gifted in terms of athleticism, reflexes, speed, reach.

Floyd relay more on his natural habilities.