Do you think Andre Ward is more skilled than Mayweather?

[!! Shawn]

I agree with parts of this post. Floyd is more athletically gifted than Ward is. He has better hand speed, foot speed, balance, coordination, and p4p Floyd is probably the harder puncher.

Both guys are very cerebral and calculating fighters but I disagree when you said Ward has a larger bag of tricks. Ward once said he has stolen several tricks from Floyd, like the jab to the body. Not all of Floyd's fights look the same but he is a master at forcing people to fight the way he wants to fight, which is why they often look the same.. Floyd likes to fight at a slow pace but hes had some fight that were barn burners, for example the Gatti fight and the Judah fight.

Watching Ward fight is like watching a bigger, slower, less explosive version of Floyd.

Having stolen tricks from Floyd is a good thing. Floyd mayweather is the best to ever do some of the things he does, why not steal them from him?

If the question of who looked better to the eye to watch. Its Floyd by a Mile. His punches are delivered so much straighter and accurately.

I say ward has a bigger bag of tricks because he does things Floyd doesn't need to do because he has advantages that allow him to never be in situations to use skills like these. Ward for example, is great at manipulating balance and working around you on the inside. Floyd gets in and gets out. He never sticks around to do any of that. Its not his style.

Being rough with your head is a skill. Hopkin is great at it, so is ward. If you are bad it you end up being the one getting cut. Floyd doesn't have that skill set. Floyd will never be head to head with you.

Ward uses throwaway punches much more intelligently, and for maneuvering not just creating openings. He will throw a lazy jab and leave it out there and give you a little push then pivot off it and close the distance and come with a right to the body from an off angle. Floyd never really has done that he has limited his throwaway shots to keeping defense at home, distracting for a shot he wants to get in, but rarely if ever for establishing inside position.

Also the fact that Ward is a natural southpaw, and can fight well out of the southpaw stance, he is able to do things inside that are very unorthodox applications of skill.

It also might just be the case that Floyd never had the chance to showcase those kinds of skills because he was never in anything like the supersix where he was forced to face the best fighters in the division with a massive variety of styles, and instead fought fights who for the most part fight the same for most of his career.

Over all, though having seen ward fight in completely different styles on so many occasions compared to seeing Floyd going out and doing Floyd every time makes me think Ward has a larger bag of tricks.

To each their own though.

They are both great fighters.

[!! Shawn]

I think even Ward himself would admit that Floyd is greater. Also, I feel that people are comparing prime Ward against old Money May (Shawns post). PBF is far better than Ward at this point and let's see where Ward is at in 7-8 years to see if we can compare that version to Money May. No knock on Ward, he's a tremendous fighter in his own right.

My post I said I don't think Floyd could have executed Wards gameplan against Dawson, and Ward couldn't have executed Floyds gameplan vs Corrales.

Thats not referencing the end of his career, thats referencing the relative high points of each fighters career.

They both fought taller fighters, Floyd fought from the outside, Ward took it inside. Different styles. Is either more skillfull?

Fighting from the outside always will look prettier, but anyone thats been in the ring (I know thats cliche but its true), knows that the subtleties on the inside are just as difficult as the game on the outside, but much less pretty.

Also, Age doesn't have a bearing on Skillfullness. See Bernard Hopkins for example. He doesn't rely on reflexes, he relies on his brain, its why he lasted for so long. Floyd started getting tagged a little more later in his career because his reflexes were not as sharp as they use to be, and he may not have had the skill set to avoid punishment in other ways.

Thats no knock on what Floyd was at his best, he just isn't the same kind of calculating fighter that Hopkins or Ward are. Listen to conversations that take place between The Mayweather camp, and Hopkins and ****m, or Ward and Hunter. Its pretty easy to tell which fighters are fighting the more cerebral fight simply by the between round conversations.

[sunny31]

To me Floyd has better offensive and defensive skills...but not by much. He is a bit better in most ways, the one thing ill give Ward as a converted southpaw I think he has a better left jab and left hand in general from the orthodox stance.

I also think Floyd has superior stamina, and a better chin. But I have to stress that you are comparing an A++ fighter (Floyd) to a A+ fighter (Ward).

[!! Shawn]

Floyd doesnt have any massive reach advantage dude Lol Stop looking at tail of the tape and Boxrec! Floyd is always 15lbs smaller, and waaay shorter, shorter arms! I think Pac and JMM are the only opponents he faced that had shorter arms than him and are smaller than him!

You know Ghost was the biggest WW, and Floyd and Thurman were way shorter than him! Ghost arms were way longer! Mosley was a few inches bigger with longer arms!

And Canelo was big af! Floyd looked like a little old man! Its NO WAY that Floyd's arms where longer than Canelo's!

Actually the only fighter Floyd fighters that had a reach advantage on him were Shane Mosley and Oscar De La Hoya. Floyd's reach of 72" is very long for WW, and lightweight it was ridiculous.

I mean here are the reaches of his most meaningful fights.

Mayweathers 72" reach

vs

70 in alvarez
67 in cotto
67 in Marquez
65 in Hatton
70 in Corrales
68 in Berto
67 in Pacquiao
69 in castillo
70 in Ortiz
70 in Guerrero

Those 10 opponents had an average reach of 67.3" compared to Floyd's 72" reach, thats an average reach advantage of almost 4 inches... That is quite a massive reach advantage. If you think I pulled the number out of my ass, go google for yourself. But dont drink the koolaid saying Floyd was at some sort of a reach disadvantage. He was in most cases, at a MASSIVE advantage. It would be even worse if we started to factor in the smaller weight guys like Jesus Chavez.

Only ones two with reach advantages on Floyd were
Mosley with 74"
and Oscar with 73"

[kiDynamite92]

Not even close.

It's like comparing the talented gym rat to the exceptional genius.

As a person and as a fighter, Ward is much better to watch but comparing them p4p... That's not even close.

[nubianpiye]

Really like Ward but Floyd mood up five weight classes and remained effective. Ward has so far moved up one and still looks good.

[kiDynamite92]

Also it's really unfair to compare a light heavy/middleweight to a natural super featherweight - guys in the lower divisions are just more skilled.

[!! Shawn]

A lot of people fail to see why Ward is just as skillful. You can't just go by appearances because things change when you go up in size. For instance, a HW that was light on his feet like Loma would get KTFO by the first guy who stepped forward and sat down on his punches. Size changes things, changes styles. Even though it looks like Ward is trying harder, they're both top 10 in punches connected and in defense as well. They only other guy above 6' tall that comes close is Wlad K.

Beyond physical differences playing a part in their styles, the competition changes things too. When you're fighting a Froch, Kessler, Bika, Abraham, etc, you have to get gritty with them. Where Ward's brilliance lies is in the "like water" thing that Bruce Lee spoke of. He adapts and becomes many different things. Ward has the best defense in the division, yet he's possibly the roughest inside fighter as well. He's not particularly large, nor does he shoot for power often, but he's physically able to dominate just about everyone he fights. Calm and quiet, but leaves opponents looking frustrated and demoralized. He's a bit of an anomaly and unless you really break-down a lot of his fights and check out some of his technique in slow-mo, you'll never pick up on all the brilliant nuances in the man's style.

There's no taking away from the things that Floyd excelled in and no one did them better than him. It's easy to pick May because the media says he's the best. But, don't overlook the subtle yet complex techniques that Ward employs. Both have what I call "the instinct", the ability to predict and mentally be a step ahead. I have thought of them as being equal in talent and the (technical) best in the sport for about 5 years now.

Muhammad Ali differs with you on that first sentence.

With the rest I agree with you.

[Crazylegs77]

Do you think Ward is a better overall fighter than Floyd was or do you think Floyd had better overall skills/talent than him? It just seems like both are so flawless in everything they do that it's hard to even say who's more skilled overall. I honestly think he's going to beat Kovalev fairly easily unless Kovalev lands a lucky punch.

Hmm well Ward excessively holds and hits and Mayweather just excessively holds and waits for Bayless to break. From that standpoint Ward is superior.

[Redd Foxx]

I also think Floyd has superior stamina, and a better chin.

Again, people are ignoring the difference in size. Smaller guys have an edge in stamina, "explosiveness", opponent punches aren't as hard so their chins look better, etc. To not scale it on a P4P level is like saying "Ward is much stronger" and not accounting for the size difference. Picture Mayweather at 6'1" and fighting the guys Ward fought, he would not look like the Floyd we know at 5'8". You really have to scale it rather than make linear comparisons.

Muhammad Ali differs with you on that first sentence.

If time is no boundary then maybe we can find boxers who trump all 3. I'm trying to stick with guys who have fought in the last 30 years.