Should boxers boycott the IBF?

[Eff Pandas]

Did you see that Berchelt plans to sue the WBO because he was passed over for his mandatory shot so that Lomachenko can get it instead?

I'm not saying the WBO isn't corrupt.

That doesn't happen with the IBF which is why Bob Arum prefers to channel his fighters away from them and towards other groups like the WBO instead. This is precisely why the IBF ratings are so barren of talent....he isn't the only promoter who operates this way.

In the corrupt world of boxing a straight shooter like the IBF actually gets in the way and becomes a hindrance.

Brother you see the same talent that I see.

3. Rogelio Medina
4. Patrick Nielsen
5. Andre Dirrell
6. Callum Smith
7. Jesse Hart
8. Hadillah Mohoumadi
9. Zac Dunn
10. J’Leon Love
11. George Groves
12. Yuzo Kiyota
13. Tyron Zeuge
14. Lucian Bute
15. Julius Jackson

I'm not talking about the guys who are ranked being a problem. I'm saying the rankings of the guys ranked by the IBF is a problem. Most notably @ 168 Porky Medina doesn't deserve to be ranked as the #3 guy/#1 unearned position guy in any non-corrupt, non-incompetent rankings that include the listed fighters we both are looking at based on what he has done. And I brought up other obvious problems with other divisions with the guys the IBF has seem worthy of being ranked by them.

[ShoulderRoll]

I'm not talking about the guys who are ranked being a problem. I'm saying the rankings of the guys ranked by the IBF is a problem. Most notably @ 168 Porky Medina doesn't deserve to be ranked as the #3 guy/#1 unearned position guy in any non-corrupt, non-incompetent rankings that include the listed fighters we both are looking at based on what he has done. And I brought up other obvious problems with other divisions with the guys the IBF has seem worthy of being ranked by them.

I'm not an expert on this but I have to assume that Porky Medina is there because he beat J'Leon Love who was undefeated at the time and probably highly ranked by the IBF.

You did bring up the heavyweight division as well but as was already explained Klitschko turned down a fight for the IBF title in favor of a rematch with Fury. So he's out of the rankings. Luis Ortiz is champ for another organization so he's out of the rankings too.

Erkan Teper is in the rankings because he beat Duhaupas for the IBF Inter Continental heavyweight title. Unless proven otherwise I have to assume that is included in their rules for how regional and cross-regional competitions allow boxers to work their way up the ratings.

[Eff Pandas]

I'm not an expert on this but I have to assume that Porky Medina is there because he beat J'Leon Love who was undefeated at the time and probably highly ranked by the IBF.

I'll focus on this situation cuz this is the one I've been looking into.

Here's the evolution of Porky Medina's move up the rankings.

J'Leon Love is ranked #15, Porky Medina is unranked.

July 2014 IBF Rankings (posted Aug. 13, 2014)

SNO Name Country
1 Carl Froch United Kingdom
2 James De Gale England
3 NOT RATED
4 Christopher Rebrasse France
5 Gilberto Ramirez Mexico
6 Julius Jackson United States
7 Maksim Vlasov Russian Federation
8 Brandon Gonzales United States
9 Rocky Fielding England
10 Alexander Brand Colombia
11 Mouhamed Ali Ndiaye Italy
12 George Groves England
13 Derek Edwards United States
14 Robert Stieglitz Germany
15 J'Leon Love United States
16 Peter Manfredo, Jr. United States

Porky Medina KO's J'Leon Love on Aug. 30, 2014
Porky Medina enters the IBF rankings at #15

Aug. 2014 Rankings (posted Sept. 5, 2014)

1 Carl Froch United Kingdom
2 James De Gale England
3 NOT RATED
4 Christopher Rebrasse France
5 Gilberto Ramirez Mexico
6 Julius Jackson United States
7 Maksim Vlasov Russian Federation
8 Brandon Gonzales United States
9 Rocky Fielding England
10 Mouhamed Ali Ndiaye Italy
11 George Groves England
12 Derek Edwards United States
13 Robert Stieglitz Germany
14 Alexander Brand Colombia
15 Rogelio Medina United States
16 Schiller Hyppolite Canada
17 J'Leon Love United States
18 Peter Manfredo, Jr. United States

IBF rankings from Sept-Nov. 2014 are missing from their website. Anyone got these rankings by chance?

Porky Medina hasn't had a fight since the last rankings on their site yet now he's #6. He moved 9 positions without a fight which should seem suspect to any reasonable person

Dec. 2014 Rankings (posted Jan. 5, 2015)

1 James De Gale England
2 Andre Dirrell United States
3 Gilberto Ramirez Mexico
4 George Groves England
5 Julius Jackson United States
6 Rogelio Medina United States
7 Rocky Fielding England
8 Brandon Gonzales United States
9 Christopher Rebrasse France
10 Robert Stieglitz Germany
11 Callum Smith England
12 Giovanni De Carolis Italy
13 Mouhamed Ali Ndiaye Italy
14 Schiller Hyppolite Canada
15 Yuzo Kiyota Japan

Porky Medina KO's Ernesto Aboyte (0-21-2) on Jan. 22, 2015
Porky Medina KO's Luis Acevedo (24-15-5) on Jan. 25, 2015
Maintains #6

Jan. 2015 Rankings (posted Feb. 7, 2015)

1 James De Gale England
2 Andre Dirrell United States
3 Gilberto Ramirez Mexico
4 George Groves England
5 Julius Jackson United States
6 Rogelio Medina United States
7 Rocky Fielding England
8 Christopher Rebrasse France
9 Robert Stieglitz Germany
10 Callum Smith England
11 Brandon Gonzales United States
12 Giovanni De Carolis Italy
13 Mouhamed Ali Ndiaye Italy
14 Schiller Hyppolite Canada
15 Yuzo Kiyota Japan

Porky Medina maintains the #6 spot in Feb. 2015-Apr. 2015
Porky Medina KO's Samuel Miller (29-10) on May 9, 2015
Porky Medina moves up to #4

May 2015 Rankings (posted June 3, 2015)

1 NOT RATED
2 NOT RATED
3 Gilberto Ramirez Mexico
4 Rogelio Medina United States
5 Julius Jackson United States
6 Rocky Fielding England
7 Patrick Nielsen Denmark
8 Andre Dirrell United States
9 Sergiy Derevyanchenko Ukraine
10 Giovanni De Carolis Italy
11 Jesse Hart United States
12 Callum Smith England
13 Tyron Zeuge Germany
14 Schiller Hyppolite Canada
15 Frank Buglione England

Porky Medina maintains the #4 spot in May. 2015-Dec. 2015
Porky Medina moves to #3 in Jan. 2016 & where he's been since

The real glaring issue with Medina's move up the rankings seem to be in the months after he entered their rankings for beating #15 ranked J'Leon Love. He's unranked. He beats a low ranked guy & enters the rankings @ #15. Then without fighting again he moves up 9 spots to the #6 position without a fight. That doesn't seem like a move a non-corrupt alphabet group would make to me unless 9 guys lost or something wild like that.

[Eff Pandas]

You did bring up the heavyweight division as well but as was already explained Klitschko turned down a fight for the IBF title in favor of a rematch with Fury. So he's out of the rankings. Luis Ortiz is champ for another organization so he's out of the rankings too.

I'd contend a non-corrupt alphabet group SHOULD rank all fighters willing to fight for their titles regardless of their standing with other corrupt alphabet groups. I'll concede thats a debatable topic doe so I'll leave these guys out.

Erkan Teper is in the rankings because he beat Duhaupas for the IBF Inter Continental heavyweight title. Unless proven otherwise I have to assume that is included in their rules for how regional and cross-regional competitions allow boxers to work their way up the ratings.

Even if it is I'd say its one of the rules that makes them a ole boy network with moving guys who work with them via paying sanctioning fees for bs belts & therefore aren't really deserving of the rank which is still a quid pro quo situation or something similar to nepotism & by definition corruption.

[Chuckguy]

They have the worst ranking system i have ever seen...fighters who win the IBF are forced into a career of fighting mandatory c class fighters

Funny you mention that Larry. I was actually looking up the different sanctitionig bodies rankings and I was able to find all except the ibf.
Oh well time to go the way of UFC and have only one belt. Makes for better matches

[ShoulderRoll]

I'll focus on this situation cuz this is the one I've been looking into.

Here's the evolution of Porky Medina's move up the rankings.

J'Leon Love is ranked #15, Porky Medina is unranked.


Porky Medina KO's J'Leon Love on Aug. 30, 2014
Porky Medina enters the IBF rankings at #15

I'd be curious to see the rankings for September-November 2014. But let's start here since its reasonable that Porky would take over the #15 spot after beating the guy who was previously in that spot.

Looking at the list of ratings for the month of August 2014 there are logical explanations for why some of the fighters in front of Medina might have dropped.

Carl Froch (retired)
Christopher Rebrasse (lost to George Groves)
Brandon Gonzalez (inactive, hasn't fought since May 2014)
Maxim Vlasov (lost to Gilberto Ramirez)
George Groves (signed to fight for WBC world title against Badou Jack)
Derek Edwards (lost to Andre Dirrell)
Robert Stieglitz (signed to fight for WBO world title)
Alexander Brand (signed to fight for WBF (?) world title)

The only ones I can't figure out are Mouhamed Ali Ndiaye and Rocky Fielding. Maybe it has to do with their choice of opponents....I would have to read through the entire IBF rulebook to be sure.

But so far I don't see anything too suspect there. Am I wrong?

[ianjamsie]

WBA have 4 titles at each weight.

WBC allow fighters to hold on to a a title forever if your face and pocket book fits.

WBO will engineer truly embarrassing mandatories.

Personally I would bin the lot and start again.

[original zero]

NEET -

You should apologize to the community for making a false claim. You wrote, "Anibal Miramontes is certified corrupt."

Then to prove your claim, you post a link to a lawsuit where a bitter fired employee sued the IBF and made allegations against Miramontes, who happened to be the man that took that employee's job.

Bitter fired employees often make up all sorts of accusations, so the allegation isn't doesn't certify anything. You offered nothing showing that a judge or jury ultimately agreed with the claim. For all we know, it was a baseless accusation by the former ratings chairman trying to tarnish the guy that took his job.

If I wrote right now that you ****ed a kid, would that make you a certified pedophile? With the logic you presented, it would. If we are to believe your argument, we must also believe that you are a certified pedophile. Is that what you want us to believe?



Eff Pandas -

This is what you said directly to me:

"Cmon man. Just cuz none of these alphabet groups haven't been convicted of anything recently its naive to suggest corruption isn't going on."

Nowhere did I say that none of the groups were corrupt. Only that the IBF isn't. And to suggest that I am naive is hilarious considering I've worked with these orgs for over a decade and know exactly which can be influenced and how.

You are the one that is naive. If you don't understand something, you cry corruption with zero proof and zero understanding. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean there is corruption, it could just mean that you aren't very bright.

You continue to lobby serious criminal allegations against the IBF with absolutely nothing to back it up and no logical reasoning for even being su****ious. Time and time again, we see the IBF do what the rules say instead of what will make the IBF the most money, and yet you still cry corruption? Do you realize how foolish that makes you look?

When the WBA & WBO make a fortune from Fury-Klitschko II, the IBF will be out in the cold. Why? Because they enforced their rules even though there was more money to be made by bending the rules.

If an organization, over and over and over again does what the rules say instead of doing what will make the most money, why in the world would you assume they are corrupt when all of the available facts say the exact opposite?

You say a non-corrupt group would rank the other champions, but the other champions have their own commitments and are not available, nor are they willing to fight in eliminators or accept the challengers share in a purse bid.

So you're going to fill the rankings with fighters who are going to turn down the offered fights and the champion isn't going to have any available contenders to choose from. What you're suggesting would be pure lunacy.

Being the champion of multiple continents putting you in contention to face the world champion is not corruption, it's common sense.

Murat Gassiev is undefeated and Marco Huck just got knocked out fighting for a different organization. Now he wants to pursue the IBF title. You expect him, coming off a loss, to immediately leap frog every single person in the IBF rankings? Why would anyone fight for the IBF if someone from another organization, who was just knocked out, can jump in front of the entire line, including an undefeated intercontinental champion?

Once again the problem is your ignorance, not the IBF's supposed corruption.

Erik Skoglund is undefeated and the champion of multiple continents. The rankings you listed are from before Andre Ward had even officially fought at 175. You expect him, without even fighting at the weight, to immediately leap frog every single person in the IBF rankings? Why would anyone fight for the IBF if someone from another organization can jump in front of the entire line, including an undefeated intercontinental champion, without even fighting at the weight?

Once again the problem is your ignorance, not the IBF's supposed corruption.

Rogelio Medina has won his last four fights by knockout, including knocking out highly ranked and previously undefeated J'Leon Love.

Until recently, Patrick Nielson was fighting for the WBA.

Andre Dirrell lost his last fight.

Until recently, Callum Smith was fighting for the WBC.

You've offered nothing to suggest that Rogelio Medina's promoter is bribing the IBF to improve his ranking and you haven't told us who should be ranked ahead of Medina. You just continue to make baseless accusations because rather than accept that you don't know what you're talking about, you want to blame everything on "corruption."

Corruption is not the problem. You are the problem.

Then you suggest that I love the IBF . . . even though I've made it clear many times that I despise every rankings organization and want Al Haymon to put them all out of business.

So no, I don't love the IBF. I hate the IBF. I just hate your lies and ******ity more.

[KillaCamNZ]

In the corrupt world of boxing a straight shooter like the IBF actually gets in the way and becomes a hindrance.

This.

The IBF calls it as it is and enforces their own rules.

And because most of boxing is bent, this means the IBF is doing it to their own detriment.

We should absolutely be applauding an org that isn't as corrupt as the promoters who manipulate everyone else.

[Eff Pandas]

And to suggest that I am naive is hilarious considering I've worked with these orgs for over a decade and know exactly which can be influenced and how.

Okay I'll bite. What did you do for over a decade with these groups?

You are the one that is naive. If you don't understand something, you cry corruption with zero proof and zero understanding. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean there is corruption, it could just mean that you aren't very bright.

LOL I love when the "smart guy" resorts to name calling. I never said I had proof you f#cking momo. I've said numerous things suggesting these groups can't be anything but corrupt or incompetent. Just cuz you come up with some bs rules to rank fighters that don't deserve to be ranked doesn't make your product not f#cked up.

Do you realize how foolish that makes you look?

I think you look more foolish claiming these groups aren't all more or less the same & have helped ruin the sport.

When the WBA & WBO make a fortune from Fury-Klitschko II, the IBF will be out in the cold. Why? Because they enforced their rules even though there was more money to be made by bending the rules.

If an organization, over and over and over again does what the rules say instead of doing what will make the most money, why in the world would you assume they are corrupt when all of the available facts say the exact opposite?

Just cuz these things over here make sense doesn't make these things over there make sense when they don't. I haven't suggested everything the IBF or any group does is wrong or bad or corrupt. The WBC just made refs take a harsher stance on rabbit punches. Thats a good thing. They are still a corrupt or incompetent group. Same deal with the IBF. They do some things right, but there is some **** wrong going on too.

Murat Gassiev is undefeated and Marco Huck just got knocked out fighting for a different organization. Now he wants to pursue the IBF title. You expect him, coming off a loss, to immediately leap frog every single person in the IBF rankings? Why would anyone fight for the IBF if someone from another organization, who was just knocked out, can jump in front of the entire line, including an undefeated intercontinental champion?

I just got this crazy idea where rankings should be based on who's best not some weird alphabet group seniority or seniority via paying sanctioning fees for minor bs alphabet titles getting a fighter higher status.

Rogelio Medina has won his last four fights by knockout, including knocking out highly ranked and previously undefeated J'Leon Love.

So just winning fights over bs fighters gets you high in the rankings? Love was ranked 15 in the IBF. Medina fought 3 bs fighters & then hasn't fought in almost a year & now he's getting a title shot. This is what a non-corrupt, competent alphabet group allows?

You've offered nothing to suggest that Rogelio Medina's promoter is bribing the IBF to improve his ranking and you haven't told us who should be ranked ahead of Medina.

If you didn't have your head up your ass you'd have noticed I left that determination to the other guy looking at the list, but implied many of the fighters listed below him shouldn't be. I mean does anyone think Medina is the #2 best guy of the current IBF 168lb rankings?

Corruption is not the problem. You are the problem.

LOL you are f#cking hilarious I'll give you that. Please explain how me commenting on a group that appears to be doing sketchy **** is sketchy in either a corrupt or incompetent way?

So no, I don't love the IBF. I hate the IBF. I just hate your lies and ******ity more.

I'm sure the feeling is mutual.