The Penalty For Being Too Good (Rigondeaux, Golovkin, Ward)

[-PBP-]

i am not misunderstanding, i just disagree on the Ward example, so i'll try and clear it up. Your thesis is Golovkin, Rigo and Ward are being punished because they are too good. (unless i am misunderstanding it?)

I agree that these guys are too good and in specific cases they have to give up a lot of concessions or are straight up being ducked.

In Wards case however, Ward could have got fights made without giving up concessions as fighters were looking to fight him. The only concession that he might have ever had to give was fight Froch in his town and he didn't want to do that. Other than that, he could have got big fights by giving some and getting some. Was there any fight at SMW that fell through for Ward because his opponent wanted a weight, ring size, glove, location advantage? (maybe Froch?). Ward did move up to make a big fight, that's good for him, he has taken the next step, however i don't think he moved up because he is too good and was being punished because of that.

me and you seem to get into this a lot and it is more to do with difference of opinion on certain fighters. I don't think we misunderstand each other, we just don't agree and that is ok too.

Froch said this:

It had been rumoured Froch would look to get his revenge on Andre Ward after his points defeat when the duo met in 2011, but the Nottingham fighter, 37, is only interested in a Box Office frenzy.

‘Professional boxing is a business first and foremost, let’s not forget that,’ said Froch. ‘People talk about Andre Ward, but I don’t want to fight him, he’ll probably beat me on points. ‘I’m a fighter and if I didn’t knock him out he’d beat me on points.

and this:

“If Andre Ward wants to fight me, like he says he does, why doesn’t he come to Nottingham, get the biggest payday of his career and beat me in my hometown? His excuse was he wants to do it at Wembley Stadium but we can’t go to Wembley because it doesn’t sell. It sells 20-30,000 in Nottingham but at Wembley it doesn’t. This guy is deluded. He hasn’t got a clue.”

Then you have the situation with Golovkin. Who was this long list of contenders that were bending over backwards to fight him?

The only people calling him out were dudes hiding behind promotional barriers.

[Irony123]

It is a lot of people on this forum who embarrass themselves by having these double standards. When it happen to others they deserve it, when it happens to someone they like they b1tch and complain about it all day. GGG was doing this to Ward just last year what he not? Well Karma must be real because Canelo is doing the exact same thing to him and it is nothing he can really do about it.

Make no mistake, GGG and his team wants that fight and that payday a lot more than just that WBC Belt! They NEED that Canelo fight because if Canelo drops that belt and go down 1 lbs, where does that leave GGG and what big fight would he have available at 160? Right now they have to be the "GOOD BOY" and be humble and wait and HOPE that Canelo fights them. WBC can't force Canelo to do anything! They can strip him of his title? OK and they would then probably present him with a new 155 Belt or something

Before the Canelo vs. GGG scenario, have you ever seen two fighters who fight in the same weight class do a catchweight?

GGG and Ward are two different divisions, meeting in the middle to metigate the risk for the smaller fighter happens often.

Canelo is a middleweight, as much as he doesn't like to admit it and even his demand isn't to meet in the middle it is to meet at his own weight that he comes in. Had GGG told Ward to meet him at 160 or 161 i would say that is a ***** move, at 164... i dont like it but i understand it... and that is the major difference between the two scenarios... also the fact that Ward is bigger overall with reach and height advantage compared to GGG vs. Canelo where both guys are pretty much the same size (i think GGG is a bit taller).

[The Big Dunn]

its a catch 22, you can't blame a fighter for the ones that duck him but then you blame him for anyone else he fights. Looking at the last few years i do believe that in GGG's case he fought the best opposition available to him with 1 or 2 exception that were outside his weight class. Even when fighting mandatories GGG gets blamed even though he offered insane amount of money to BJS and tried to make the Canelo fight and was going to fight TJ who got injured and had to settle for Wade.

don't be fooled, deevel916 and others shift their feelings on "ducking" depending on who the fighter is.

I get your point. That said other fighters are going to do what is in their best interest just like GGG does.

Posters get mad when a guy like BJS turns down GGG because he wants to stay unbeaten and in contention for a Canelo fight. A lot of posters criticize GGG because they feel this is what he did with Ward.

GGG doesn't get balmed for fighting mandatories, he gets blamed for using the belts and unification as shade from taking on a non mandatory that would be more difficult to defeat.

GGG is not responsible for Canelo, Cotto, BJS or Martinez not fighting him. He is responsible for fighting 12 straight 8-1 or worse underdogs.

[.!WAR MIKEY!.]

It is a lot of people on this forum who embarrass themselves by having these double standards. When it happen to others they deserve it, when it happens to someone they like they b1tch and complain about it all day. GGG was doing this to Ward just last year what he not? Well Karma must be real because Canelo is doing the exact same thing to him and it is nothing he can really do about it.

Make no mistake, GGG and his team wants that fight and that payday a lot more than just that WBC Belt! They NEED that Canelo fight because if Canelo drops that belt and go down 1 lbs, where does that leave GGG and what big fight would he have available at 160? Right now they have to be the "GOOD BOY" and be humble and wait and HOPE that Canelo fights them. WBC can't force Canelo to do anything! They can strip him of his title? OK and they would then probably present him with a new 155 Belt or something

Dem be some shitty ass gifs son!

War Barrios Doe!

[Deevel916]

don't be fooled, deevel916 and others shift their feelings on "ducking" depending on who the fighter is.

I get your point. That said other fighters are going to do what is in their best interest just like GGG does.

Posters get mad when a guy like BJS turns down GGG because he wants to stay unbeaten and in contention for a Canelo fight. A lot of posters criticize GGG because they feel this is what he did with Ward.

GGG doesn't get balmed for fighting mandatories, he gets blamed for using the belts and unification as shade from taking on a non mandatory that would be more difficult to defeat.

GGG is not responsible for Canelo, Cotto, BJS or Martinez not fighting him. He is responsible for fighting 12 straight 8-1 or worse underdogs.

BJS vs GGG was a step towards total unification and BJS flat out ducked. That's why many fans were upset and disappointed with BJS.

How does that relate to GGG/Ward when Ward fights at LHW and GGG fights at MW?

[Irony123]

don't be fooled, deevel916 and others shift their feelings on "ducking" depending on who the fighter is.

I get your point. That said other fighters are going to do what is in their best interest just like GGG does.

Posters get mad when a guy like BJS turns down GGG because he wants to stay unbeaten and in contention for a Canelo fight. A lot of posters criticize GGG because they feel this is what he did with Ward.

GGG doesn't get balmed for fighting mandatories, he gets blamed for using the belts and unification as shade from taking on a non mandatory that would be more difficult to defeat.

GGG is not responsible for Canelo, Cotto, BJS or Martinez not fighting him. He is responsible for fighting 12 straight 8-1 or worse underdogs.

i can see your point, to be honest there is only 1 or 2 fighters in the entire division who wouldn't be 8-1 underdogs and even then those guys will be underdogs of 3-1 or 4-1. PBP is right and i agree with him that he is too good and he is getting punished just like some other fighters do (or did) by not getting the big names. The only time GGG will not be favorite is if he gives up significant size and weight advantage against an equally great fighter but i think that is the only thing he can do if he isn't able to get Canelo and BJS by years end (or early next year).

As his fan i dont want him to lose, but i think it will be a bigger travesty not to see what he is capable of in his prime.

[The Big Dunn]

BJS vs GGG was a step towards total unification and BJS flat out ducked. That's why many fans were upset and disappointed with BJS.

How does that relate to GGG/Ward when Ward fights at LHW and GGG fights at MW?

BJS did what was best for his career, not fight GGG, stay unbeaten and in contention for a more lucrative unification with Canelo.

This relates to Ward/GGG because GGG showed a willingness to go to 168 for winnable fights to preserve his unbeaten record, but not for the fight where his unbeaten record was in the most jeopardy.

No 2 situations are exactly the same. What is the same is neither BJS or GGG showed a willingness to take a fight they were likely to lose.

[Fetta]

BJS did what was best for his career, not fight GGG, stay unbeaten and in contention for a more lucrative unification with Canelo.

This relates to Ward/GGG because GGG showed a willingness to go to 168 for winnable fights to preserve his unbeaten record, but not for the fight where his unbeaten record was in the most jeopardy.

No 2 situations are exactly the same. What is the same is neither BJS or GGG showed a willingness to take a fight they were likely to lose.

Excellent!!!!

[therealpugilist]

BJS did what was best for his career, not fight GGG, stay unbeaten and in contention for a more lucrative unification with Canelo.

This relates to Ward/GGG because GGG showed a willingness to go to 168 for winnable fights to preserve his unbeaten record, but not for the fight where his unbeaten record was in the most jeopardy.

No 2 situations are exactly the same. What is the same is neither BJS or GGG showed a willingness to take a fight they were likely to lose.

his fans nor his team believe he could have beat Ward...thats old news

[JStill Unbiased]

When fighters duck Rigo its "shame on them" and rightfully so. But when fighters duck/avoid/vacate belts to not fight GGG somehow its GGG's fault that there's a lack of quality named opponents on his resume.

No one of note wants to fight you in your division, change divisions. Simple as that.