who among suspected PED user got away the most: Pacquaio, Mayweather or Marquez?

[travestyny]

**********************************************
WADA has clarified that the use of IV infusions to treat mild dehydration or simply accelerate recovery IS NOT an acceptable medical use of IVs in sport.

For more information please read https://www.wada-ama.org/en/resource...cs-intravenous
**********************************************

Let's discuss this statement with the link you provided. First, there is this:

"...the use of IV fluid replacement following exercise to correct mild to moderate dehydration is not clinically indicated nor substantiated by the medical literature."

Is it this statement that "confirms that treating mild dehydration is not an acceptable medical use of IV in sports?" Doesn't the above statement just say that the use of an IV to treat mild to moderate dehydration is unsupported by medical literature? Yes. Now, how the hell do you think that's the same statement?

or maybe it was this part of USADA's medical information:

"There is a well-established body of scientific evidence to confirm that oral rehydration is the preferred the****utic choice"

Does this say that IV use is not acceptable for treating mild dehydration in sports? Seems it only states that it is well established that drinking is the preferred choice to treat dehydration. Hmm. I don't see any statement that is the same as the one you provided.

Now, where did it say that the use of IV infusions to treat mild dehydration or simply accelerate recovery IS NOT an acceptable medical use of IVs in sport? NOWHERE. The statements above are nowhere near strong enough to state IV's to treat dehydration are unacceptable. It simply seeks to reinforce to the TUEC that oral rehydration should be the way to go unless there is justification otherwise. Unfortunately, all of this is a moot point anyway because even if you were right about WADA's stance (which clearly you are not if based on the above information alone), this still doesn't help you prove the IV wasn't justified by a medical practitioner.

Let's look further:

the use of IV infusions to treat mild dehydration or simply accelerate recovery IS NOT an acceptable medical use of IVs in sport.

You're placing all of your eggs in this basket, yet do you know that Floyd's condition was mild dehydration? Nope. You don't even know if it was acute or chronic, which brings me to the next point:

Let's look further at WADA's medical information that you've been pointing to. This one should cause you some real embarrassment:

In situations of medical emergency or clinical time constraints, a retroactive TUE application is acceptable (ISTUE 2015 article 4.3).

Lol. Once again, you've been made to look ridiculous for not knowing what OR means. Is it more clear to you in this statement? Why don't you take some time out to admit that you were wrong about this. Maybe while you are at it, you can admit that you don't know what the hell you are talking about when it comes to any of this.

Let's look further:

WADA's Statement:
a TUE must be submitted for this Prohibited Method if more than 50 mL of fluid per a 6-hour period is infused or injected.

USADA's statement:
IV infusions and/or injections of more than 50mL per 6-hour period are prohibited at all times, both in- and out-of-competition unless the athlete has applied for and been granted a The****utic Use Exemption (TUE) under the applicable anti-doping rules.

Yep, that seems like they are pretty much in sync, don't you think? lol According to you, they give contradictory information? Can you point this contradictory information out using statements from USADA and statements from WADA? And if you can't, will you admit that you are wrong yet again?


Oh, and you should notice this:

A summary of the athlete’s history and the findings of a physical examination should confirm the diagnosis and establish the need for an IV infusion. A precise description of the clinical situation and specific medical indication for the IV infusion must be given in the TUE application.

Yep, like I said. A medical practitioner is allowed to justify the IV. Do you have any proof that the medical practitioner didn't do this in Floyd's case?

And finally, this one is the straw that breaks your back:

Oral rehydration is usually highly effective, yet there may be cases such as documented hyponatremia where hypertonic saline by IV is more effective than oral treatments.

When you can prove that Floyd's dehydration didn't cause hyponatremia, or any other condition that makes the IV more effective than oral hydration, then you may have some legs to stand on. Until then.... You got nothing, kid. Time for you to admit it and let it go.

[ADP02]

Looks like you can't point to WADA making this statement itself. Again, does WADA make the statement. Is it ANYWHERE in WADA's documents? Yes or no?

I gave you information straight from WADA that says the medical practitioner can justify the IV use. You want to keep bringing up what a 3rd party says, fine. Even if WADA does make that statement, which it clearly does not, you still have no proof that the use wasn't justified by a medical practitioner. Why are you clinging to this 3rd party statement when it doesn't help your argument at all?

You Said "medical practitioner can justify the IV use"

BUT that does not mean what they wrote is accurate (true) and drastically different than what information we already have ..... but that is what you are clinging to. You think that Floyd, Ellerbe and Dr Ariza, who really was the one who prescribed the IV, have no clue even AFTER the fact.

Yes, we have quite a bit of information already:
- Floyd told the doctor what occurred leading up to this supposed dehydration and stated:
- that he was working out,
- gave blood and so on.
- Plus his urine was darker.
With that information plus checking:
- vital signs, which we have as information too,
- plus urine tests .... oh wait, Floyd couldn't urinate, remember?
- that he drank orally with no problem.
- His walking, fighting and weigh in weight is relatively stable.
- Dr Ariza has Floyd monitored everyday .....


The doctor did something else you say to conclude that an IV was necessary...... like what?

Anyways, Floyd said it himself. It was Dr Ariza that showed Floyd how to hydrate professionally.

Floyd did just like Lance. Floyd got his well paid doctor to get him a retroactive prescription for a retroactive TUE ..... and you want to see what was written?

Ben Johnson (sprinter) and others have used that line too. "My doctor prescribed the substance to me because I had a muscle injury", .... others, "doctor prescribed it to me because I had low testosterone level". It does not mean its true.
DIFFERENCE: If they were allowed to get a retroactive TUE 18 days after the event to cover it up like Floyd was allowed to, well, they would get their doctor to do just that. Would you want to see the doctor reports on that?

BTW - My doctor was about to give me a prescription on stuff that I didn't even have. He said to me "Do you want that I give you a prescription for XXX because it looks like you have this problem? How about I give you one for YYY because you look like you are experiencing this?"

I said no, I do not want drugs unless we are 100% sure .... and I told him lets perhaps monitor for a few months. Doctor agreed.

Well, I have been monitoring myself for the last month and I know for a fact that the doctor was wrong on both counts.

NOTE: My doctor could have based one prescription on passed visits (as proof), as he pointed out but that would not be accurate, as I pointed out. The other prescription was a complete joke!

The point is that its not too hard to get your doctor to agree with your request and my visit was free!!! I'm sure Floyd pays his doctor good money just like he pays for USADA's Gold Standard.


- Floyd's own words: His walking, fighting and weigh in weight is relatively stable. There was no need to get an IV.





3rd Party?

This is a credible source. USADA(USA), Canada, UK, Japan all direct athletes there.


ADO's direct athletes to this organization for a reason.

Go check out USADA. They direct athletes there.

They used WADA's name for a reason.
More than likely, it's because athletes must have asked and they went to the source, named WADA, and got clarifications on what WADA expects. TH e point is that they used WADA's name so it came from WADA.

Now you think that they are not telling us the truth? What's your problem with this? You Floyd fans keep asking us to go ask WADA. Well, they did and they are reputable and objective.


If you want to go there then USADA is a 3rd party in the state of Nevada. NSAC says that they are the sole authority on approving TUE's. So in that case, Floyd's TUE is a joke! Well, it is for other reasons as well .......




************************************************** ******
The Global Drug Reference Online (Global DRO) provides athletes and support personnel with information about the prohibited status of specific medications based on the current World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) Prohibited List.

Global DRO does not contain information on, or that applies to, any dietary supplements.

Visitors can search the Global DRO for specific information on products sold in the United Kingdom, Canada, the United States and Japan.

Global DRO is brought to you through a partnership between UK Anti-Doping (UKAD), the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport (CCES) and the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA). The Japan Anti-Doping Agency (JADA) is an official Global DRO licensee.
**************************************

[ADP02]

ADP02 doesn't understand dehydration can be caused by something. Which explains his fixation on Floyd's weight 30 days prior.



He also says USADA misinterpreted WADA code - which is a counter argument to something I pointed out within an USADA document about iv use dated before the fight was even announced - but still thinks USADA shows favoritism to Floyd by allowing the iv. Logically, you can't have it both ways. But we aren't dealing with logic. Just speculation based on a conspiracy to make Manny lose.

What you do not understand is what dehydration is. Its a deficit of fluids. Nobody is saying that Floyd was not dehydrated. What we are saying is that he was not significantly dehydrated to the point that the only alternative was to use an IV. See the difference? I doubt it.

Floyd should have already been OK after drinking after the weigh in. If not, he just required a bit more BUT NOBODY WAS STOPPING HIM!!!


You can come up with all the reasons in the world for why Floyd was dehydrated but at the end of the day, there is still supposed to be a DELTA. If you have relatively no delta then that means that Floyd had no real issues. Remember that he was being monitored by Dr Ariza.

BUT

then if you want to bring up other reasons for dehydration then we would still be talking about someone other than Floyd. That is an even bigger problem that you have NOT me. Its like you are closing your ears to the facts. Floyd, Ellerbe, Dr Ariza told you that the IV was due to dehydration. Right? Or you do not believe them? So why the speculation?

They also told you why on multiple occasions why Floyd was dehydrated. Did they lie every time? You do not believe Floyd? Ellerbe? Dr Ariza?

They told you it was to recoup from training, giving blood and urine. Do you believe Floyd and Ellerbe?

According to WADA, it is Floyd's responsibility to know exactly what was going on. Plus its just dehydration not cancer. This is an area that he and Dr Ariza should know well. So he should know AFTER the fact what he had, no?




.

[ADP02]

Here it is, enjoy the most unbelievably dehydrated man in the world.

So Floyd says he walks around 150, 148. Comes in at 146 and drinks quite a bit of fluids. Plus Floyd's reason for the IV is not a good reason because as we can see Floyd could have just drank ....... Unless you area Floyd fan, that is enough to say that Floyd should NOT have received a retroactive TUE.


Exhibit number 1




.

[travestyny]

You Said "medical practitioner can justify the IV use"

BUT that does not mean what they wrote is accurate (true) and drastically different than what information we already have ..... but that is what you are clinging to. You think that Floyd, Ellerbe and Dr Ariza, who really was the one who prescribed the IV, have no clue even AFTER the fact.

And your speculation doesn't mean it's not accurate. THAT IS THE POINT. You've been all smug as if you have some information about exactly what happened, but you don't. When people tell you that you don't have enough information, you pretend that you do. Then you go on bringing up everyone and their mother as your proof. The simple fact is that WADA itself says the medical practitioner (no matter who it is) must justify the use. DO YOU KNOW IF THE MEDICAL PRACTITIONER DID THAT? YES OR NO???? IF YOUR ANSWER IS NO, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PROOF! This is not rocket science.

Yes, we have quite a bit of information already:
- Floyd told the doctor what occurred leading up to this supposed dehydration and stated:
- that he was working out,
- gave blood and so on.
- Plus his urine was darker.
With that information plus checking:
- vital signs, which we have as information too,
- plus urine tests .... oh wait, Floyd couldn't urinate, remember?
- that he drank orally with no problem.
- His walking, fighting and weigh in weight is relatively stable.
- Dr Ariza has Floyd monitored everyday .....

We've been over this already:

1.NSAC has NEVER been able to diagnose someone with dehydration. NEVER as far as I can see. THEIR INFORMATION CAN NOT BE CONSIDERED WHEN WE KNOW THAT ATHLETES HAVE BEEN DEHYDRATED BEFORE MATCHES under NSAC jurisdiction.

2. YES, for the millionth time, he said he was dehydrated. He is a professional boxer. Unless you were in his camp and monitoring him, you have no proof otherwise.

3. He couldn't urine? Does that mean he couldn't urinate at all? He gave a partial sample and you know it, so stop with the slick ****.

4. Ariza monitored him. So what? Once again, you know that boxers are most concerned with rehydration after the weigh-in. Is your argument that no boxer that has a strength and conditioning coach experiences dehydration? This is a joke.

5. Just because you can physically drink does not mean it is the most effective method to return you back to a normal state. I've already proven this.

The doctor did something else you say to conclude that an IV was necessary...... like what?

Like this!!!!:
"A summary of the athlete’s history and the findings of a physical examination should confirm the diagnosis and establish the need for an IV infusion. A precise description of the clinical situation and specific medical indication for the IV infusion must be given in the TUE application."

What information do you have that shows this was not done? PROOF! That's what we need. You have the burden of proof. Let's hear your proof that that was not done. If you can't provide any, it's time to move on! I'll be waiting for this solid proof.

• Floyd did just like Lance.
• Floyd got his well paid doctor to get him a retroactive prescription for a retroactive TUE
• Ben Johnson (sprinter) and others have used that line too.
• BTW - My doctor was about to give me a prescription on stuff that I didn't even have.
• Floyd's own words: His walking, fighting and weigh in weight is relatively stable. There was no need to get an IV.

Well look at all of this deflection and speculation. This is embarrassing. Lance Armstrong, Ben Johnson, and your doctor have nothing to do with this. Who the hell cares about your doctor???? Can you imagine this going to court and the prosecution calling your doctor to the stand??? Really? This is a joke. You deflect to bring up everyone that you can and then you say there was no need for an IV based on....nothing. His weight? Have you admitted that it could have been chronic dehydration yet? Do you have any information when this chronic dehydration could have first occurred? Oh, you don't have any of this information???

3rd Party?

This is a credible source. USADA(USA), Canada, UK, Japan all direct athletes there.

I've already addressed this.

1. Can you show that their statement is explicitly the same statement given in WADA's documents? You can't. If you could, you would have done so already.

2. EVEN IF that information was correct, it does not preclude Floyd rightfully being granted a TUE based upon the medical practitioner's information.

This is simple stuff. You just have a head like a rock.

But can you admit that you are wrong?

In situations of medical emergency or clinical time constraints, a retroactive TUE application is acceptable (ISTUE 2015 article 4.3).

Still waiting to hear what you thought of this. Were you right or wrong?

Furthermore, never heard what you thought about this:
"When a potentially chronic medical condition is first diagnosed, it may be advisable to grant a TUE for a shorter period until the medical regime is stabilized."

Exactly what I had been telling you. That it depends on when the condition is first diagnosed. Will you admit that you were wrong?

and still waiting to know what you think about this:
"Oral rehydration is usually highly effective, yet there may be cases such as documented hyponatremia where hypertonic saline by IV is more effective than oral treatments."

So all of your gifs of Floyd drinking water is now irrelevant. You aren't fooling anyone and you know it.

Will you admit that you COULD be wrong about this whole thing?

[Dosumpthin]

What you do not understand is what dehydration is. Its a deficit of fluids. Nobody is saying that Floyd was not dehydrated. What we are saying is that he was not significantly dehydrated to the point that the only alternative was to use an IV. See the difference? I doubt it.

Floyd should have already been OK after drinking after the weigh in. If not, he just required a bit more BUT NOBODY WAS STOPPING HIM!!!


You can come up with all the reasons in the world for why Floyd was dehydrated but at the end of the day, there is still supposed to be a DELTA. If you have relatively no delta then that means that Floyd had no real issues. Remember that he was being monitored by Dr Ariza.

BUT

then if you want to bring up other reasons for dehydration then we would still be talking about someone other than Floyd. That is an even bigger problem that you have NOT me. Its like you are closing your ears to the facts. Floyd, Ellerbe, Dr Ariza told you that the IV was due to dehydration. Right? Or you do not believe them? So why the speculation?

They also told you why on multiple occasions why Floyd was dehydrated. Did they lie every time? You do not believe Floyd? Ellerbe? Dr Ariza?

They told you it was to recoup from training, giving blood and urine. Do you believe Floyd and Ellerbe?

According to WADA, it is Floyd's responsibility to know exactly what was going on. Plus its just dehydration not cancer. This is an area that he and Dr Ariza should know well. So he should know AFTER the fact what he had, no?




.

This is pretty ****ing delusional.

Speculation is not a fact.

Floyd and ellerbe are not physicians.

You've gone full ****** with your latest post.

[Real King Kong]

[IMG]https://media.*****.com/media/c72MamejVBqNO/*****.gif[/IMG]

[ADP02]

This is pretty ****ing delusional.

Speculation is not a fact.

Floyd and ellerbe are not physicians.

You've gone full ****** with your latest post.

Sorry but you do not need to be a doctor to explain to people that you were dehydrated.

Sorry but you do not need to be a doctor to understand and explain to people why you were dehydrated and say that it was because of his training.

Only a few Floyd fans believe that silliness!!!




BTW - Go back and look at the threads discussing Manny's injury.

Floyd fans ,Floyd, Ariza were bashing Manny when Manny said that he had a shoulder injury. Did they stop bashing because Manny was not a doctor? Did they wait to hear what the doctor had to say? Even worse, they didn't even believe what a well known reputable doctor actually said nor to this day do many Floyd fans even believe that Manny had surgery. This includes some who post regularly in this thread and make statements like you are making!!!

Just the other day, LarryXXX began a thread and was showing us a picture of Manny's shoulder to prove that Manny didn't have surgery. Once he realized he goofed, then he asked to delete the thread because he saw the marks .....

Can you please show me your posts calling out Floyd fans as delusional?

[Dosumpthin]

Sorry but you do not need to be a doctor to explain to people that you were dehydrated.

Sorry but you do not need to be a doctor to understand and explain to people why you were dehydrated and say that it was because of his training.

Only a few Floyd fans believe that silliness!!!




BTW - Go back and look at the threads discussing Manny's injury.

Floyd fans ,Floyd, Ariza were bashing Manny when Manny said that he had a shoulder injury. Did they stop bashing because Manny was not a doctor? Did they wait to hear what the doctor had to say? Even worse, they didn't even believe what a well known reputable doctor actually said nor to this day do many Floyd fans even believe that Manny had surgery. This includes some who post regularly in this thread and make statements like you are making!!!

Just the other day, LarryXXX began a thread and was showing us a picture of Manny's shoulder to prove that Manny didn't have surgery. Once he realized he goofed, then he asked to delete the thread because he saw the marks .....

Can you please show me your posts calling out Floyd fans as delusional?

I respect someone who can openly admit mistakes.

Are you willing to admit you made a mistake about the word "or"?

Nope.

So you are ****ing DELUSIONAL.



Not being able to lift your arm is a symptom.

Torn rotator cuff is the cause.

Dehydration is a symptom.

The tue will show the cause.

[ADP02]

[IMG]https://media.*****.com/media/c72MamejVBqNO/*****.gif[/IMG]

Here is a Floyd fan checking in wishing the IV scandal will all go away. Then finds out its not going away and has to walk back out!