who among suspected PED user got away the most: Pacquaio, Mayweather or Marquez?

[travestyny]

You said that "I fall back on hydration".

Well that has always been the biggest problem for me. You are even admitting that it has been a big issue for me. The reason that I bring it up is that it didn't make sense for Floyd to be given an IV. Its on the prohibited list meaning its illegal. The rules state that and state to use an alternative. You came back with no evidence that points to Floyd requiring an IV and said that its not your problem but now you want me to come up with the exact way that Floyd cheated?
The red flags are there but like I said in the past, only Floyd can tell you exactly what he was doing and who helped him.


Floyd dragged out the testing process to about 6+ hours. Then only when he was good and ready did USADA get what they wanted. Not the first time he has done that. Was Floyd micro-dosing and was delaying intentionally to be extra sure that his results passed? Quite possibly. It wasn't because he was severely dehydrated and needed an IV. The evidence point to the contrary.

USADA/Floyd and company:
You pretty much answered it for me but are too stuck in your own web. If Floyd is getting help from some members of USADA then can you actually believe anything they are saying? You keep on saying but Floyd said that so it must be true or USADA said that so it must be true and yes even NSAC said that so Floyd is in the clear. So you are saying, to listen to the cheats lie so we can clear them?


Lance Armstrong fans spoke just like you. I said this before and will say it again, Lance was still caught with a positive test.

Going by your logic that should not have happened if Lance paid off all those people. Right? Lance was actually investigated during those years. So there was no way that the UCI, doctors, organizers, and so on were helping Lance. Right? If that was the case, he wouldn't even have been investigated. ooops, that only applies to the Nevada boxer named Floyd!!!

Lance was also cleared by the equivalent of USADA/NSAC. Lance and his fans used that to create a fake shield instead of question.

So stop saying its not possible or it can't be because like I said, there are examples that point to the opposite of what you are saying.

Not sure why you keep bringing up Lance, but if you want to, let's go there.

Do you realize that USADA was one of the main organizations going after Lance to prove he was guilty, or do you just not know much about his case? I could post various information to prove that, but since you claim to know so much about Lance, you should know that.

By the way, you admitted what I was sure of. You feel you have something valid when it comes to dehydration (when you don't have anything conclusive at all), but you are having a major issue making that quantum leap to Floyd using PED's. So in the worst case scenario, you have Floyd rehydrating with saline and vitamin C and beating Pacquaio. Don't see much to complain about.

By the way, I already showed you how the science for the masking conspiracy doesn't even add up. You never told me what you think of that. Here it is summarized:

In general, when IV saline is used for blood volume replacement, one litre is recommended to produce a 250 ml. increase in blood volume.
So, while 750 ml does equate to “roughly 16 percent of the blood normally present in the average male”, the sustained increase in blood volume corresponding to a 750 ml. Saline IV infusion would likely be in the region of 3-4%, not 16%. Similarly, Hauser postulates that a 750 ml IV saline infusion would be enough to reduce haematocrit levels from 55% to 47%, but the reality is that closer to three litres of IV saline would be required to produce a similar reduction.
Incidentally, Hauser is correct to point out that Mayweather’s final pre-fight blood test was on April 21st (Manny Pacquiao’s was a day later on April 22nd) but both fighters underwent a post-fight blood test on May 2nd. A 750 ml. IV saline infusion received on May 1st might alter the results of a blood test administered immediately afterwards, but it would do little to fool a test the next day.

if USADA is willing to cover things up for Floyd, as Hauser is strongly suggesting, it begs the question; why would Mayweather bother using an IV as a masking agent?


The Mayweather T/E ratios provided were 0.8 and 0.69 respectively. In Hauser’s article, former PED kingpin Victor Conte described “abnormally low” T/E ratios as “a red flag,” with the clear implication being that Mayweather’s results were su****ious. Yet just last month, a study on the steroid profile of 4,195 male football players in UEFA competition was published. The results showed T/E ratios varied between 0.02 and 8.6 with roughly one-third of players showing a T/E ratio less than or equal to 0.9. Mayweather’s T/E ratio was low, slightly below average but is it so low as to allow us to draw the conclusions Mr. Hauser is suggesting?
Furthermore, in January of this year, Jon Jones and Daniel Cormier met at UFC 182. The results of the drug tests carried out by the NSAC in the lead up to this fight make interesting reading. Jones posted three T/E ratios; 0.35, 0.29 and 0.19. Cormier posted T/E ratios of 0.4 and 0.48. If Mayweather’s results are “abnormally low,” I’m not sure what Hauser would call these far, far lower results.
Mr. Hauser questioned whether Mayweather’s T/E ratio had prompted the samples to undergo carbon isotope ratio (CIR) testing. We don’t know if they did or if they didn’t. But we do know that both Jones and Cormier, with far lower T/E ratios, had their samples undergo CIR and according to NSAC executive director Bob Bennett, both tested negative for exogenous steroids.

By the way, we now do know that CIR testing was done. So um....what you got? Are you ready to move onto point #2 on PED use? Would love to hear your evidence that refutes the evidence presented here.

[Dosumpthin]

You said this (context: who is a bigger cheat) :
"Rehydration vs putting your blood in a centrifuge.... .hmmm...."

Why did you say that then? Floyd did both BTW


Keeping it in context you should have said this: Rehydration by way of an IV is prohibited meaning illegal while PRP is legal according to WADA.

The reasons for the IV are very fishy. That is why it should not have been given. Nobody has explained how there was a need for the IV when all experts said there are better ways to rehydrate and that a TUE is not given out like lolly pops. For Floyd that is exactly what they did!!!

Explain?

In response to....

Classic blood doping is either infusing blood with oxygen and injecting it back in, injecting extra blood extracted and stored previously, or most often both.

Under your interpenetration of the rules blood doping is legal because oxygen and/or your own blood are not drugs.

But we know you are wrong and ****** because IV re-hydration and blood doping are both cheating for the same reason. Its an artificial way to increase your body's capacity to hold an essential nutrient that improves performance. This is especially true in weight classification sports like boxing as the practice allows competitors to re-hydrate to a degree not physically possible in the time between weigh-in and competition.

AND.......

No they weren't. You have proven that you are quite ******. You cant understand the rules you are reading. In our previous arguments you have interpreted the NSAC rules in such a way as for blood doping to be legal.

If IV re-hydration is legal so is blood doping. What difference is there between artificially infusing the blood with saline and infusing it with oxygen? Both are cheating. You are artificially increasing the body's capacity to hold an essential nutrient to improve performance.

PRP is approved by wada. No you dont need an injury like you imply. Its simply not prohibitted.

This debunks his ENTIRE rational of iv and HIS DEFINITION of blood doping being the SAME form of cheating.



He has no idea why IV use is illegal.

[GTTofAK]

PRP is approved by wada.

Blood doping is not PRP you dumbass. PRP is the synthesizing of growth factors from blood to be used in treatment.

No you dont need an injury like you imply. Its simply prohibited.

Since PRP is not blood doping this is a moot point.

He has no idea why IV use is illegal.

Again PRP is not what we are talking about. Blood doping is illegal. If we are to interpret NSAC rules like Froid defenders are then blood doping would have to be legal.

[GTTofAK]

Do you realize that USADA was one of the main organizations going after Lance to prove he was guilty, or do you just not know much about his case? I could post various information to prove that, but since you claim to know so much about Lance, you should know that.

It was not USADA that caught Armstrong it was the LA Federal Prosecutor. Once Armstrong's team was put under oath the entire scam crumbled. But please go ahead. If you think you know more about his than I do it will be fun humiliating you.

In general, when IV saline is used for blood volume replacement, one litre is recommended to produce a 250 ml. increase in blood volume.
So, while 750 ml does equate to “roughly 16 percent of the blood normally present in the average male”, the sustained increase in blood volume corresponding to a 750 ml. Saline IV infusion would likely be in the region of 3-4%, not 16%. Similarly, Hauser postulates that a 750 ml IV saline infusion would be enough to reduce haematocrit levels from 55% to 47%, but the reality is that closer to three litres of IV saline would be required to produce a similar reduction.

And there is where you are ******. It is not the "sustained increase" that beats the test. Its the transient effect. Lance Armstorng was not taking 3 liter IVs to beat the test you idiot.

if USADA is willing to cover things up for Floyd, as Hauser is strongly suggesting, it begs the question; why would Mayweather bother using an IV as a masking agent?

Because USADA leaks you dolt. How do you think the press found out about Morales positive test? Not everyone who works for USADA is on the take. Someone within USADA leaked it. Its far better for everyone involved if Froid never tests positive than for USADA to try and cover up a positive test.

The Mayweather T/E ratios provided were 0.8 and 0.69 respectively. In Hauser’s article, former PED kingpin Victor Conte described “abnormally low” T/E ratios as “a red flag,” with the clear implication being that Mayweather’s results were su****ious. Yet just last month, a study on the steroid profile of 4,195 male football players in UEFA competition was published. The results showed T/E ratios varied between 0.02 and 8.6 with roughly one-third of players showing a T/E ratio less than or equal to 0.9. Mayweather’s T/E ratio was low, slightly below average but is it so low as to allow us to draw the conclusions Mr. Hauser is suggesting?

Did not occur to you that since UEFA was not testing for steroids that many of the players will be taking steroids? A sample of 4,195 athletes in an untested league is not a control sample for clean athletes you moron. If anything you should assume that many are dirty.

Furthermore, in January of this year, Jon Jones and Daniel Cormier met at UFC 182. The results of the drug tests carried out by the NSAC in the lead up to this fight make interesting reading. Jones posted three T/E ratios; 0.35, 0.29 and 0.19. Cormier posted T/E ratios of 0.4 and 0.48. If Mayweather’s results are “abnormally low,” I’m not sure what Hauser would call these far, far lower results.

Mr. Hauser questioned whether Mayweather’s T/E ratio had prompted the samples to undergo carbon isotope ratio (CIR) testing. We don’t know if they did or if they didn’t. But we do know that both Jones and Cormier, with far lower T/E ratios, had their samples undergo CIR and according to NSAC executive director Bob Bennett, both tested negative for exogenous steroids.

By the way, we now do know that CIR testing was done. So um....what you got? Are you ready to move onto point #2 on PED use? Would love to hear your evidence that refutes the evidence presented here.

First, low T/E ratios are not just a sign of masking testosterone with epitestosterone. AAS use can suppress T/E ratios well after discontinuation of use especially if the user does not know how to restart the natural production of testosterone with post cycle therapy.

However, Froid didn't just have low T/E ratio. He had high end of normal testosterone and a low T/E ratio. This means that his epitestosterone was abnormally high. There is only one explanation for borderline high testosterone and a low T/E ratio, exogenous epitestosterone.

Second, the CIR test is oversold in its effectiveness. The CIR test is looking for evidence of testosterone synthesized from soy phytosterols. Phytosterol synthesis is the most common way of making prescription and black market testosterone because it is a cheap and effective method. If someone is taking a name brand or generic testosterone CIR test will detect it. However, testosterone can also be synthesized from cholesterol just as the body does. Exogenous testosterone synthesized from cholesterol will not be detected by CIR test as it is chemically identical to biological testosterone.

Now where does someone get testosterone synthesized by cholesterol. Well the best way would be to have a chemists synthesize it for you. An expert at synthesizing testosterone would have no trouble synthesizing cholesterol based testosterone, someone like Memo Heradia. Memo would never be ****** enough to put an athlete on common phytosterol synthesized testosterone. He would synthesize from cholesterol to beat the CIR test.



You cannot hope to win on this. I'm the expert here.

[Dosumpthin]

Blood doping is not PRP you dumbass. PRP is the synthesizing of growth factors from blood to be used in treatment.



Since PRP is not blood doping this is a moot point.



Again PRP is not what we are talking about. Blood doping is illegal. If we are to interpret NSAC rules like Froid defenders are then blood doping would have to be legal.

Prefacing your comments with "dumbass" doesnt help validate your point.

I will refrain, out side of the occaisonal ******* comment, from using such terms when adressing people. I expect the same common courtesy.


Now. As far as the loophole in NSAC code, yes it is a loophole. Research it. And it is percisely the point i was trying to make.


Its why they wont even bother to investigate Floyd IV. Not because of favoritism for floyd, but because of the wording in their own rules, he did nothing wrong.

Research it.



Floyd should be applauded for introducing a more stringent testing agency that adheres to wada code. He followed protocol with the iv, beyond what nsac allows, and was proven to be within all guidelines.



And the only reason why i brought up PRP because it shows a contradiction in which YOU defined blood doping in comparision to IV rehydration and WHY its considered cheating.



There are, at present, two methods of PRP preparation approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.[3] Both processes involve the collection of the patient's whole blood (that is anticoagulated with citrate dextrose) before undergoing two stages of centrifugation (TruPRP) (Harvest) designed to separate the PRP aliquot from platelet-poor plasma and red blood cells.[3]


"Some concern exists as to whether PRP treatments violate anti-doping rules, such as those maintained by the World Anti-Doping Agency.[1] It is not clear if local injections of PRP can have a systemic impact on circulating cytokine levels, in turn affecting doping tests; it is also not clear whether PRP treatments have systemic anabolic effects or affect performance.[1] In January 2011, the World Anti-Doping Agency removed intramuscular injections of PRP from its prohibitions after determining that there is a "lack of any current evidence concerning the use of these methods for purposes of performance enhancement".[24] In April 2014, Orioles first baseman Chris Davis, 28, underwent two PRP injections to speed the healing and recovery of an oblique injury. Left-hander Zach Britton had the procedure in his left shoulder in March 2012, according to the Baltimore Sun, and right-hander Dylan Bundy had the procedure last April before undergoing Tommy John surgery in June."







Using your explanation PRP should be banned by wada. Wouldnt you agree?

[Vadrigar.]

if many did roids and looks like that he should get his money back. now look at froid payweather if you want to see a juiced android

Boxers don't take roids to gain as much size as possible like bodybuilders do.

[Twako]

there's really a simple argument here.
why floyd would need 750ml of IV and a TUE 20days later.
floyd fans, use common sense and stop gargling floyd's nuts. you were overly su****ious of pac who had never done any su****ious procedure or produce any su****ious medical result, but here you are trying to justify floyd's IV procedure, amount of which is not only su****ious in boxing but in mma too, yet you find somehow, somewhere a clause here and there and spin it so you can sleep better and justify it.

[GTTofAK]

Now. As far as the loophole in NSAC code, yes it is a loophole. Research it. And it is percisely the point i was trying to make.

There is no loophole. The rules are clear as day. All injections are banned except those on the approved list. There is no ambiguity there is no loophole.

Its why they wont even bother to investigate Floyd IV. Not because of favoritism for floyd, but because of the wording in their own rules, he did nothing wrong.

They wont investigate Froid because he agreed to retire. That was the deal.

Floyd should be applauded for introducing a more stringent testing agency that adheres to wada code. He followed protocol with the iv, beyond what nsac allows, and was proven to be within all guidelines.

No VADA was doing the testing before Froid brought in USADA. VADA is more stringent than USADA.

And the only reason why i brought up PRP because it shows a contradiction in which YOU defined blood doping in comparision to IV rehydration and WHY its considered cheating.

You brought up PRP because you did a quick Google search of blood doping and PRP showed up because of its similarity to blood doping.

Using your explanation PRP should be banned by wada. Wouldnt you agree?

Quit jumping between rules you *******. The issue is that the NSAC does not allow injections that are not on the approved list period.

[Real King Kong]

You cannot hope to win on this. I'm the expert here.

posting picture of fat guy with alex ariza = win.

[GTTofAK]

posting picture of fat guy with alex ariza = win.

Thats Memo Heredia BALCO's chemist. Memo working with Ariza means that Froid has a chemist in his camp who can synthesize cholesterol based test for him that cant be detected by CIR.

CIR is oversold. It only detects one kind of exogenous testosterone, phytosterol based. It was only an effective test when it first came out because the chemists hadn't adapted to it yet. Chemists like Memo know full well how to get around the CIR test.