who among suspected PED user got away the most: Pacquaio, Mayweather or Marquez?

[travestyny]

Q1. You agreed that like Manny didn't check the right box (had shoulder injury) in the prefight form, FLoyd didn't correctly fill out the form.

The question is, "Do you agree that, like Manny, Floyd should have been investigated for incorrectly filling out the form"?

I wouldn't be upset if they investigated. Do I think they should? Not really since it would be a waste of time. It would be more pertinent for USADA to investigate because NSAC obviously doesn't care bout dehydration, doesn't note dehydration, and IV's aren't illegal as per their guidelines. It doesn't make sense for them to investigate. Let's be honest. Pacquaio (if he was investigated...? Did it even happen?) brought it on himself by being a coward and making up an excuse. I do understand your point that it should be fair and if one is investigated for lying then the other should be as well, so that's why I have no problem with it if they were to investigate. However, it's one thing to lie so that the show continues, and another thing to lie in a way that attacks the NSAC by saying they were told about Pacquaio's condition and unrightfully refused his request. He attacked NSAC with a lie and they fired back.

Q2. You are incorrect. Hauser states that they check and Floyd showed no signs of being significantly dehydrated. Go read. He brings up some checks that are routinely made.

I've read it. He said they check inside the fighter's mouth. Where is the documentation that says what they found? Please show it to me. Was it written somewhere? You already admit that even if they did find him to be dehydrated, they would still allow him to fight! So what was their clear statement on whether he was dehydrated??? THAT I'd like to read. Would they ever document that any fighter is dehydrated since obviously it would allow them to incriminate themselves in the event something goes terribly wrong because of how lax they are about allowing dehydrated fighters to fight (you even agree they do this). THIS IS THE REASON I'VE TOLD YOU A BILLION TIMES THAT NSAC CAN'T BE USED AS ANY PROOF WITH CONCERN TO DEHYDRATION!!!

Last I checked, seems Hauser based his idea that Mayweather wasn't dehydrated only on pulse and blood pressure. I haven't seen where it has been shown that those always occur when someone is dehydrated. Hauser was proven wrong about various things by USADA (don't make me list all of the things he was proven wrong about) and you want me to believe what he says about the NSAC mouth check when 1. There is no documentation of it. 2. You admit that even if dehydration was found, NSAC would allow the fight to go on and 3. Hauser works for HBO, is at most a proven liar and at least a man who acts without all the facts in hand, and has already made unfounded accusations against Mayweather. Yea. Where is the proof of the 3 failed drug tests again??? Did you accept word of mouth from Uncle Roger about A-side Meth? Well, you should consider Hauser to be Pacquaio's Uncle Thomas.

Your quote on dehydration means absolutely nothing. So please never ever bring this silly excuse up again. Dehydration is not the proper context here. We are talking about Floyd being so severely dehydrated that he had to use an IV.

Ok, this is all USADA's bag. I think we should be able to agree on that since NSAC doesn't even have rules against an IV and we both know they don't give a damn if a fighter is dehydrated. Let's get to the meat and potatoes here. This is what was needed for the TUE as far as I can see:

a. The Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method in question is needed to treat an acute or chronic medical condition, such that the Athlete would experience a significant impairment to health if the Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method were to be withheld.

c. There is no reasonable The****utic alternative to the Use of the Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method.

I omitted the other 2 requirements since they are irrelevant (look them up if you want).

Now, I'm not sure what is defined as acute. I'm also not aware of whether the condition was chronic. I'm not sure what they mean by a significant impairment to his health. I think we would need HIS MEDICAL FILES to find that out. We would also need USADA to clarify. This is the point you can't seem to grasp. The question is, why has everyone on Pacquaio's side given up on trying to access these files? Do you really think that they would give up on this if there was a chance to make this into a much bigger stinker than it was? Come on, they would love to bring down Mayweather and USADA, and have a legitimate reason for a rematch, much more legitimate than a fake shoulder injury!

The reason that they gave up is because no proof exists to the contrary. Yet somehow you believe you proved otherwise. Ok, genius, send it along to Mr. Arum or Uncle Thomas, please. You proved your case? Have at it! I'm not joking. I really want you to do this! I would love to hear what comes of your overwhelming mountain of evidence. Will you promise to do this so we can end this debate?


Finally, I'm still wondering if you are so interested in the IV simply because you think he broke the WADA code, or because you think he was taking performance enhancing drugs. Is it right to say you believe the latter?

[travestyny]

At 15 second mark of that Floyd says it himself that he struggles to make 147.

Yet he required an IV? For what Floyd???

Since he is talking about how he is too small for 160, do you think he means that he struggles to make it up to 147???? You must mean that since you bring up why would he need an IV. THIS SHOWS HOW COMPLETELY ABSURD YOU ARE!

He is saying he is barely a 147lb weight class fighter. He's clearly not a big WW like Margarito or PWill were. He's definitely not a 154lb weight class fighter, and nowhere near a 160lb weight class fighter.

You, of all people, who have documented his weight from months out before a fight should know this, but it shows that you will try to spin anything, no matter how ridiculous it comes off and how well documented the facts are.

You've been exposed.

[Spoon23]

At this point Floyd should return all that millions he stole from us fans. Poll shows people know the truth.

Fraud should be punished.

[Spoon23]

mayflower jr was flat out caught using IVs add his close relationship with usada who barley test their fighters and I say junior is the biggest cheat although it wouldn't shock me if all of them were on the juice.

The polls show people are not blind anymore. There will be reckoning..

[ADP02]

I wouldn't be upset if they investigated. Do I think they should? Not really since it would be a waste of time. It would be more pertinent for USADA to investigate because NSAC obviously doesn't care bout dehydration, doesn't note dehydration, and IV's aren't illegal as per their guidelines. It doesn't make sense for them to investigate. Let's be honest. Pacquaio (if he was investigated...? Did it even happen?) brought it on himself by being a coward and making up an excuse. I do understand your point that it should be fair and if one is investigated for lying then the other should be as well, so that's why I have no problem with it if they were to investigate. However, it's one thing to lie so that the show continues, and another thing to lie in a way that attacks the NSAC by saying they were told about Pacquaio's condition and unrightfully refused his request. He attacked NSAC with a lie and they fired back.



I've read it. He said they check inside the fighter's mouth. Where is the documentation that says what they found? Please show it to me. Was it written somewhere? You already admit that even if they did find him to be dehydrated, they would still allow him to fight! So what was their clear statement on whether he was dehydrated??? THAT I'd like to read. Would they ever document that any fighter is dehydrated since obviously it would allow them to incriminate themselves in the event something goes terribly wrong because of how lax they are about allowing dehydrated fighters to fight (you even agree they do this). THIS IS THE REASON I'VE TOLD YOU A BILLION TIMES THAT NSAC CAN'T BE USED AS ANY PROOF WITH CONCERN TO DEHYDRATION!!!

Last I checked, seems Hauser based his idea that Mayweather wasn't dehydrated only on pulse and blood pressure. I haven't seen where it has been shown that those always occur when someone is dehydrated. Hauser was proven wrong about various things by USADA (don't make me list all of the things he was proven wrong about) and you want me to believe what he says about the NSAC mouth check when 1. There is no documentation of it. 2. You admit that even if dehydration was found, NSAC would allow the fight to go on and 3. Hauser works for HBO, is at most a proven liar and at least a man who acts without all the facts in hand, and has already made unfounded accusations against Mayweather. Yea. Where is the proof of the 3 failed drug tests again??? Did you accept word of mouth from Uncle Roger about A-side Meth? Well, you should consider Hauser to be Pacquaio's Uncle Thomas.




Ok, this is all USADA's bag. I think we should be able to agree on that since NSAC doesn't even have rules against an IV and we both know they don't give a damn if a fighter is dehydrated. Let's get to the meat and potatoes here. This is what was needed for the TUE as far as I can see:

a. The Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method in question is needed to treat an acute or chronic medical condition, such that the Athlete would experience a significant impairment to health if the Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method were to be withheld.

c. There is no reasonable The****utic alternative to the Use of the Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method.

I omitted the other 2 requirements since they are irrelevant (look them up if you want).

Now, I'm not sure what is defined as acute. I'm also not aware of whether the condition was chronic. I'm not sure what they mean by a significant impairment to his health. I think we would need HIS MEDICAL FILES to find that out. We would also need USADA to clarify. This is the point you can't seem to grasp. The question is, why has everyone on Pacquaio's side given up on trying to access these files? Do you really think that they would give up on this if there was a chance to make this into a much bigger stinker than it was? Come on, they would love to bring down Mayweather and USADA, and have a legitimate reason for a rematch, much more legitimate than a fake shoulder injury!

The reason that they gave up is because no proof exists to the contrary. Yet somehow you believe you proved otherwise. Ok, genius, send it along to Mr. Arum or Uncle Thomas, please. You proved your case? Have at it! I'm not joking. I really want you to do this! I would love to hear what comes of your overwhelming mountain of evidence. Will you promise to do this so we can end this debate?


Finally, I'm still wondering if you are so interested in the IV simply because you think he broke the WADA code, or because you think he was taking performance enhancing drugs. Is it right to say you believe the latter?

You said that it doesn't make sense for them to investigate? When you lie on that form and sign, then yes it does make sense! THis is what the NSAC said about Manny not letting the NSAC know about the injury.
"Its a serious matter. We need to know the state of health of our boxers."

and you talk like its not a big deal for NSAC as far as "dehydration" goes because you say "they will still make FLoyd fight". Well that is exactly what would happen and did happen with Manny and still they made a big deal.

and you say "IV is legal according to NSAC rules". Well, so was what Manny going to use and the NSAC stopped Manny from getting help.



You are looking at the examination backwards. The NSAC physician will not point out every single thing that is OK with the athlete. The NSAC physician will be more specific when it comes time to point out what's wrong with the athlete.
As an example, I went to the doctor on Monday. Lots of things were checked. Vitals were noted and then he also noted what was not quite right. He did not write down all those things that he checked and said "that's fine".

So that is what Hauser explained clearly. Again, everyone but you understood! Even other FLoyd fans understood that!


"Also, Mayweather was given a pre-fight physical examination by the Nevada State Athletic Commission on the day of the weigh-in. Did he disclose to commission doctors at that time that he was so badly dehydrated that he needed an IV infusion? No, he did not. Nor, according to NSAC records, did the examining physician find evidence of dehydration."


You said that you are saying a billion times that the NSAC would not state that FLoyd was dehydrated because it would incriminate them. Well then that makes it a billion times that you are terribly wrong. NSAC, as you know, let Manny fight with an injured shoulder. They let others fight too with some type of injuries. With some other type of injuries, they did not give the athlete a license to fight. The NSAC needs to know then determines if the fighter can fight with the injury or condition. Like I said before one big reason is because of the money involved.


You keep on saying "dehydrated" then make your points. If that is your stance then Floyd did NOT require an IV. Now if Floyd was severely dehydrated then we can talk but just like Floyd didn't, you have not made a case that Floyd was severely dehydrated. Now go check up on severely dehydrated instead of the just "dehydration" and lets see what you turn up. Here is one example: "If there are signs of significant dehydration (elevated resting heart rate, low blood pressure), fluids are generally given through an IV, a tube placed into a vein."
Now go back and check Floyd's vital signs. Now if you were an objective unbiased person, you would start to question this by now.

So my question to you is after spending so much time reading about severe dehydration, why have you not questioned why was there really a need for Floyd to get an IV? Floyd already was drinking and getting fluids into his body before getting the IV. What gives? Only if you see conclusive evidence can you say otherwise.

"to treat an acute or chronic medical condition".
Well in the pre-fight examination FLoyd only said "Allergies"

You notice that both USADA and Floyd never say that Floyd was severely dehydrated. Reason is because Floyd was not. Floyd made it sound like he used an IV just to rehydrate. That is not a good reason to get an IV. You wanted medical information yet you have closed your eyes on the NSAC examination. Floyd's vital signs were better than normal. They were optimal. Again, do not come back with "dehydrated". Go check what they say about someone that is "severely dehydrated".

Now the kicker: You keep on asking for evidence. There is plenty of evidence that points to Floyd not being severely dehydrated and therefore not requiring an IV. On the other hand, I noticed that you had no problem voting for Manny Pacquiao in this thread when it came to this question: "who among suspected PED user got away the most: Pacquaio"

I'm presuming that you have a lot more evidence than me. I have some medical data to prove my point. I'm presuming that you have Manny's medical records that show his abnormal T/E ratio, right? Ooops, I made a mistake. That would be Floyd!!!

[ADP02]

Since he is talking about how he is too small for 160, do you think he means that he struggles to make it up to 147???? You must mean that since you bring up why would he need an IV. THIS SHOWS HOW COMPLETELY ABSURD YOU ARE!

He is saying he is barely a 147lb weight class fighter. He's clearly not a big WW like Margarito or PWill were. He's definitely not a 154lb weight class fighter, and nowhere near a 160lb weight class fighter.

You, of all people, who have documented his weight from months out before a fight should know this, but it shows that you will try to spin anything, no matter how ridiculous it comes off and how well documented the facts are.

You've been exposed.

Floyd said that he has NO trouble making 147 not me.

Floyd has also said many times that he can make 147 EASILY. Well, its clear if Floyd is already at 150 mark on day 30 from fight against Manny ....... then Floyd can make it easily.

So if he makes 147 easily and he did for all his fights at WW including Manny fight at 146 then its quite normal to assume that Floyd was NOT severely dehydrated. For Floyd to have been severely dehydrated, he would have come in much lower than 146. Since 146 is normal and EASY for Floyd to make, Floyd did not require an IV!

Its simple math and logic. You need to show us your math skills now and EVIDENCE ..... I'm still waiting!



.

[travestyny]

Floyd said that he has NO trouble making 147 not me.

Floyd has also said many times that he can make 147 EASILY. Well, its clear if Floyd is already at 150 mark on day 30 from fight against Manny ....... then Floyd can make it easily.

So if he makes 147 easily and he did for all his fights at WW including Manny fight at 146 then its quite normal to assume that Floyd was NOT severely dehydrated. For Floyd to have been severely dehydrated, he would have come in much lower than 146. Since 146 is normal and EASY for Floyd to make, Floyd did not require an IV!

Its simple math and logic. You need to show us your math skills now and EVIDENCE ..... I'm still waiting!



.

You've basically said the same thing over and over. If you have proof, why don't you send it to Arum or Hauser. If you won't listen to me that you have absolutely nothing, then maybe you will listen to them...?

You said he struggles to make it up to 147, yet you showed that he was at 150 months out. You have the nerve to question anyone's math skills??? Even you must admit that what you said was idiotic.

[travestyny]

You said that it doesn't make sense for them to investigate? When you lie on that form and sign, then yes it does make sense! THis is what the NSAC said about Manny not letting the NSAC know about the injury.
"Its a serious matter. We need to know the state of health of our boxers."
Do you believe that? Even your beloved Hauser doesn't buy it. I showed you his quotations already. They care about the fight taking place, period.

and you talk like its not a big deal for NSAC as far as "dehydration" goes because you say "they will still make FLoyd fight". Well that is exactly what would happen and did happen with Manny and still they made a big deal.


First of all, I never said they will make Floyd fight. Why is that in quotations? I told you why they threatened to investigate Manny, but you either have low comprehension skills or you are in denial.

and you say "IV is legal according to NSAC rules". Well, so was what Manny going to use and the NSAC stopped Manny from getting help.
Toradol? For a non-disclosed injury? Go do some research on Toradol and tell me why Pacquiao needed it.



You are looking at the examination backwards. The NSAC physician will not point out every single thing that is OK with the athlete. The NSAC physician will be more specific when it comes time to point out what's wrong with the athlete.
As an example, I went to the doctor on Monday. Lots of things were checked. Vitals were noted and then he also noted what was not quite right. He did not write down all those things that he checked and said "that's fine".

So that is what Hauser explained clearly. Again, everyone but you understood! Even other FLoyd fans understood that!

So where on that form were they to note that he was dehydrated? I don't see anywhere. And how the hell are you going to say they would note it if there was dehydration when even you admit they would overlook it at the request of the boxer. Stop contradicting yourself.

"Also, Mayweather was given a pre-fight physical examination by the Nevada State Athletic Commission on the day of the weigh-in. Did he disclose to commission doctors at that time that he was so badly dehydrated that he needed an IV infusion? No, he did not. Nor, according to NSAC records, did the examining physician find evidence of dehydration."

Again, you expect them to note it even if they would overlook it, as you quite clearly already implied if not stated explicitly. Don't make me go back and quote you. How the hell can that make sense to you? WHEN HAVE YOU EVER KNOWN NSAC TO DECLARE A BOXER TO BE DEHYDRATED? ESSENTIALLY, WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT IF A BOXER IS DEHYDRATED, NSAC WON'T TELL US, AND IF THEY AREN'T DEHYDRATED, NSAC WON'T TELL US. So how the hell are you relying so much on NSAC for proof. Can you comprehend this?

You said that you are saying a billion times that the NSAC would not state that FLoyd was dehydrated because it would incriminate them. Well then that makes it a billion times that you are terribly wrong. NSAC, as you know, let Manny fight with an injured shoulder. They let others fight too with some type of injuries. With some other type of injuries, they did not give the athlete a license to fight. The NSAC needs to know then determines if the fighter can fight with the injury or condition. Like I said before one big reason is because of the money involved.

They let him fight with an injured shoulder? This dude is a lying snake and you can't defend him!

Pacquiao said: “We wanted a shot for numbing the shoulder but we respect the decision of the Commission it was getting better and better but was still not 100 per cent.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/boxing/manny-pacquiao-blames-floyd-mayweather-5628491

"Pacquiao said, “No, I don’t have pain or injury before the fight. I just want to make sure that whatever happened, I’m still there. I’m not saying I’m not 100 percent condition.”

http://www.newsday.com/sports/boxing/why-manny-pacquiao-still-believes-he-beat-floyd-mayweather-in-2015-fight-1.11350596

You keep on saying "dehydrated" then make your points. If that is your stance then Floyd did NOT require an IV. Now if Floyd was severely dehydrated then we can talk but just like Floyd didn't, you have not made a case that Floyd was severely dehydrated. Now go check up on severely dehydrated instead of the just "dehydration" and lets see what you turn up. Here is one example: "If there are signs of significant dehydration (elevated resting heart rate, low blood pressure), fluids are generally given through an IV, a tube placed into a vein."
Now go back and check Floyd's vital signs. Now if you were an objective unbiased person, you would start to question this by now.

The question is whether the condition was acute or chronic. Was it severe to the point that his life was in danger? No, I don't believe so. Then again I don't have his medical records, but that is not my belief. Could it have been non-life threatening yet severely impair his health? Yes. When you find that elevated resting heart rate and low blood pressure ALWAYS accompany an acute or chronic case of dehydration, do let me know. I'll be waiting for it

So my question to you is after spending so much time reading about severe dehydration, why have you not questioned why was there really a need for Floyd to get an IV? Floyd already was drinking and getting fluids into his body before getting the IV. What gives? Only if you see conclusive evidence can you say otherwise.

Thank you for making my point. And it's obvious that you have no conclusive evidence. If so, Pacquaio would have pleaded his case instead of dropping that idea.

"to treat an acute or chronic medical condition".
Well in the pre-fight examination FLoyd only said "Allergies"

You notice that both USADA and Floyd never say that Floyd was severely dehydrated. Reason is because Floyd was not.
Was it chronic dehydration?

Floyd made it sound like he used an IV just to rehydrate. That is not a good reason to get an IV.
Oh, it isn't? Then why would it be used to.....rehydrate? lol You do realize that IV's are used to rehydrate quite often, don't you?

You wanted medical information yet you have closed your eyes on the NSAC examination. Floyd's vital signs were better than normal. They were optimal. Again, do not come back with "dehydrated". Go check what they say about someone that is "severely dehydrated".

Already addressed these. Same thing over and over with you. You have nothing.

Now the kicker: You keep on asking for evidence. There is plenty of evidence that points to Floyd not being severely dehydrated and therefore not requiring an IV. On the other hand, I noticed that you had no problem voting for Manny Pacquiao in this thread when it came to this question: "who among suspected PED user got away the most: Pacquaio"

It says suspected. I have no proof, but at least I don't pretend to have proof like you. I just know that person A who refused drug testing is more su****ious than person B who goes through drug testing. It's simple logic.

I'm presuming that you have a lot more evidence than me. I have some medical data to prove my point. I'm presuming that you have Manny's medical records that show his abnormal T/E ratio, right? Ooops, I made a mistake. That would be Floyd!!!

You have no medical evidence or any other form of evidence. If you did, then it would prove how idiotic Pacquaio and his entire team of advisors and lawyers are. How dare you talk about your savior and his team that way. First it was all about CIR testing, then when Pacroaches learned that was done, it wasn't enough, but you fail to mention that USADA uses the Athelete Biological Passport to track those fluctuations. The man is hated on tremendously, yet no one is willing to put up this fight. I wonder why.

Once again, what are you going to do with this mound of evidence? Have you sent it in? Maybe you can be a Pacroach hero Go for it. Sadly, you will find that your "evidence" is severely dehydrated.

[Spoon23]

In the words of Larry Merchant, "This is getting embarrassing."

Froid is winning this easy.

The advocate for a cleaner sport is the biggest fraud in boxing.

[The Big Dunn]

I think if we ranked things that made us think one was guilty of PED use it would be:

1. Refusing to take test
2. TRT video/IV
3. Back acne