Should Manny Still Be Placed Above Floyd On The ATG List?

[joseph5620]

I've been explaining multiple times in this thread. You don't agree, provide evidence to support your opinion.

But since you guys dont seem to like to read, here's some justification for my opinion....
Physical age - Morales was 30 when he fought Pac. Pac was 38 when Floyd fought him
Fighter age - Morales 51 fights over 13 years, Pac 65 fights over 20 years. Both brawlers but Pac relied more on athleticism/Morales more traditional skills.
recent loss type - Morales lost 3 times before Pac, all by decision. Pac 5 losses including 3 knockouts

Now please, tell me, how the hell you think a 30 yr old Morales being KO'ed for the first time in his career, was a worse win than a 38 year old Pac with a fairly recent KO.

I'll tell you in the most elementary way I can since you don't seem to think clearly.

1. Pacquiao lost to a future hall of fame fighter and all time great in the view of many: Juan Manuel Marquez.

Morales was outclassed by a fighter who won't ever make it to the hall of fame. Did you conveniently forget that?


2. Morales was struggling to make the weight and was very obviously weakened by it. That's common knowledge.

3. Using age as a comparison is ****** considering that fighters age differently and Morales aged much faster than Paquiao as a fighter.


4. Pacquiao was considered at least the second best fighter in the world when he fought Mayweather. Morales was not even close to it at that stage of his career.


Those are facts that your ignorance and bias can't change.

[GOD-FR33]

F Floyd.

that fighter of the decade award was a joke..lost to a past prime Morales, drew with Marquez who he dropped 3 times and never beat him clearly, and made a name fighting Mayweathers leftovers in Hatton, DLH, and Mayweather whitewashed Marquez after a 2 year lay off...I dont need the BWAA to tell me who was better when their is video evidence that Mayweathe was better and more dominant


Floyd said it best ," How can you be fighter of the decade and you lost in the decade? Im undefeated and have been champion over a decade."



you have to look at who does the voting for these awards and lets be real....a media darling will get accolades before someone who goes against the grain


perfect example was fighter of the year in espy's....Ronda Rousey got it beating nobodies and Mayweather won the biggest fight in history money-wise and the most important of this era between the two best and he didnt get fighter of the year???? Yea right...you have to consider who is voting for these awards and they have their preferences

"F" Floyd Mayweather. You're a Fanboy. That's what you are. All this video does is prove how ignorant Floyd is and how afraid of Manny he truley was at the time. He is also jealous of the admiration that Manny and Oscar received over the years. When you fight the best and take risks, you get PRAISE. Nobody praises Floyd and he has a problem with it. He is an insecure man, a narcissist, and very ignorant.

[madsweeney]

I NEVER said that dont put words in my mouth i NEVER stated such a thang

Originally Posted by BlackSoul View Post
real talk and he AVOIDED ZAHIR RAHEEM who had JUST beat erik morales by UD
and i remember in the telecast jim lampley particularly sayin' that manny paqcuiao SHOULD AVOID ZAHIR RAHEEM "bc their styles don't mesh" or some coward **** like that. and what did manny do? he DUCKED HIM

so where did i say that at?
tfoh checkmate

Yea I re-read what you said and corrected my mistake. Fact is you are on the Pac ducked Zhair bandwagon and that **** has been debunked for years.

[madsweeney]

I'll tell you in the most elementary way I can since you don't seem to think clearly.


1. Pacquiao lost to a future hall of fame fighter and all time great in the view of many. Juan Manuel Marquez. Morales was outclassed by a fighter who won't ever make it to the hall of fame. Did you conveniently forget that?


2. Morales was struggling to make the weight and was very obviously weakened by it. That's common knowledge.

3. Using age as a comparison is ****** considering that fighters age differently and Morales aged much faster than Paquiao as a fighter.


4. Pacquiao was considered at least the second best fighter in the world when he fought Mayweather. Morales was not even close to that at that stage of his career.


Those are facts that your ignorance and bias can't change.

Your "facts" are half-truths.

1. Morales was going into the fight as a tune up and was his first fight @ 135 and got out-boxed. In most cases, that shows someone shouldn't be in that weight class. Pacquiao got KTFO by a guy who had never been able to put him on the mat in 3 previous fights. JMM skill lvl aside, he was able to hurt Pac like never before indicating Pacquiao was no longer as durable as before.

2. Morales agreed to the weight class he was title holder in. Had one fight, which he lost, @ 135.

3. Morales aged faster, yes, but to say Pac wasn't similarly diminished after JMM ko, let alone 2 years later is just BS. Both were faded, IMO the KO and the two years after showed everyone Pac was not the same, just like Zahir showed us he Morales was the same.

4. Morales was still the top dog @ 130 and the guy that just beat Pacquiao. Both lost past their primes, both are good, but diminished wins for their opponents.

If these Pac/Morales fights were so pointless and diminished...why was Floyd going crazy in the front row of their 3rd fight?

[b00g13man]

You're arguing details, you're right, I made a mistake on his age because I don't follow Pac quite as close as you assume. 36, 37,38...old muther****er for boxing, over half a decade in age, more wars, a brutal KO by a guy who was never able to put him on the mat...that holds a ****load of weight as to how done a boxer is vs getting out-boxed by an over-looked tuneup you jumped up a weight-class to fight.

Nope. Morales was definitely more done. Nothing you say can rewrite history.

[madsweeney]

Nope. Morales was definitely more done. Nothing you say can rewrite history.

From beating Pac down to done in less than a year...amazing.

[b00g13man]

From beating Pac down to done in less than a year...amazing.

Huh? We're going to act like he gave Pac a one-sided beatdown? Have you even watched the first fight? Seen round 12? You don't think the massive shots he took when he foolishly switched to southpaw, combined with all the wars could have had something to do with the shortening of his career?

You sound clueless.

[therealpugilist]

"F" Floyd Mayweather. You're a Fanboy. That's what you are. All this video does is prove how ignorant Floyd is and how afraid of Manny he truley was at the time. He is also jealous of the admiration that Manny and Oscar received over the years. When you fight the best and take risks, you get PRAISE. Nobody praises Floyd and he has a problem with it. He is an insecure man, a narcissist, and very ignorant.

admiration or not...Mayweather will be remembered as the best...rightfully so...they are beloved by their fans...thats cool...you wont see them mentioned beside Leonard, Ali, or Duran...why? Because he was the best


In my opinion...Mayweather was the best fighter in the world from 00-09...his results show this....BWAA had their board and gave their opinion, they awarded Manny...cool

doesnt change the fact Mayweather was more dominant in the decade and whitewashed his closest rival

one day you'll just have to live with it

call me whatever you like....doesnt change the fact that i support my position on topics with facts

[joseph5620]

Your "facts" are half-truths.

1. Morales was going into the fight as a tune up and was his first fight @ 135 and got out-boxed. In most cases, that shows someone shouldn't be in that weight class. Pacquiao got KTFO by a guy who had never been able to put him on the mat in 3 previous fights. JMM skill lvl aside, he was able to hurt Pac like never before indicating Pacquiao was no longer as durable as before.

2. Morales agreed to the weight class he was title holder in. Had one fight, which he lost, @ 135.

3. Morales aged faster, yes, but to say Pac wasn't similarly diminished after JMM ko, let alone 2 years later is just BS. Both were faded, IMO the KO and the two years after showed everyone Pac was not the same, just like Zahir showed us he Morales was the same.

4. Morales was still the top dog @ 130 and the guy that just beat Pacquiao. Both lost past their primes, both are good, but diminished wins for their opponents.

If these Pac/Morales fights were so pointless and diminished...why was Floyd going crazy in the front row of their 3rd fight?

That's laughable. You claim it's a "half truth" yet you respond with nothing that supports that. Morales was struggling to make 130 which is why he never fought at that weight again after the last Pacquiao fight. Another fact that you won't be able to spin.


As far as Mayweather "going crazy" who the hell cares? It doesn't change the fact that Morales was not seen as "top dog" at that stage and certainly wasn't in the same position as the Pacquiao that fought Mayweather. That's a lie on your part.

[madsweeney]

Huh? We're going to act like he gave Pac a one-sided beatdown? Have you even watched the first fight? Seen round 12? You don't think the massive shots he took when he foolishly switched to southpaw, combined with all the wars could have had something to do with the shortening of his career?

You sound clueless.

I was using words described by people in this thread, and it was pretty one-sided. So those few hits Morales took > Pac getting knocked down and KTFO by JMM in terms of shortening their careers? You guys are suggesting that Morales went from fully in control of Pac to weight drained and shot in less than a year...but Pac was nowhere near as diminished despite being 6 years older, fought 15 fights more over a longer career, and having been KTFO 2 years prior.

That's laughable. You claim it's a "half truth" yet you respond with nothing that supports that. Morales was struggling to make 130 which is why he never fought at that weight again after the last Pacquiao fight. Another fact that you won't be able to spin.


As far as Mayweather "going crazy" who the hell cares? It doesn't change the fact that Morales was not seen as "top dog" at that stage and certainly wasn't in the same position as the Pacquiao that fought Mayweather. That's a lie on your part.

You don't understand what half-truth means do you? My responses were additional information providing context to your "facts".

Saying "I'm the tallest person" is very different than "I'm the tallest person, in this room" Both are factually true, but the first is a half-truth used to project a particular point of view.

Yes Morales was out growing 130 but he was able to beat Pac @ 130 less than a year before. So tell me, how does someone go from being healthy enough to soundly beat Pac, to weight drained and diminished in 10 months?