Should Manny Still Be Placed Above Floyd On The ATG List?

[hugh grant]

every fighter that they had that was a common opponent mayweather fought them FIRST except cotto BUT cotto was at a CATCHWEIGHT
so come again

Every common opponent apart fromm jmm PAC destroyed and destroyed hatton at his best weight of 140.

[BlackSoul]

Every common opponent apart fromm jmm PAC destroyed and destroyed hatton at his best weight of 140.

was hatton undefeated then? if not who beat him? and who beat him first?

[madsweeney]

For a start Floyd did not force JMM up 3 weight classes , JMM had 2 big wins at 140 and called Floyd out who had been out of the ring for nearly 2 years and JMM was at the time NO 2 rated P4P in the world .

JMM fight night weight for his 2 JWW wins was 144 , he was 149 on the night fighting Floyd and was 150 on the night KOing Manny .

JMM went life and death with Manny 4 times and Juan in the end KOed him out cold , Floyd schooled JMM like he didnt belong in the same ring with him , and you never once heard JMM or Nacho wanting a rematch with Floyd , both have said he cant be beat , Nacho even said you need a bat and Floyd is from another universe .

How the fck can a guy thats been beat a number of times and was beat by Floyd be held higher and Floyd beat better versions of Oscar Cotto and Mosley 3 of Mannys biggest rated wins .

You talk about double standards and being objective yet you miss out the crucial points in your argument and break both your own rules .

JMMs last fights before Foyd were:
Juan diaz @ 135
Casamayaor @ 135
Pacquiao @ 130
Rocky Juarez @ 130

Where are these fictional wins @ 140...oh two year later

Contracted catch weight was 144, Floyd weighed in at 146 and paid something like $600k in fines for coming in over weight.

So your two major arguments are flat out lies. Yes JMM/Pac were rivals, yes they went life and death each fight, doesnt change the fact that Pac fought JMM in his prime, in his prime weight class, not ballooning him up 3 classes and even then, coming in overweight.

Perfect records do not make one great, a resume of accomplishments does. H2H Floyd will likely beat any version of Pac, but that doesn't dispute the fact that it is easily argued that Pac accomplished the same, or slightly more than Floyd did due to the quality of the wins he had. Imagine Ali having a perfect record, but never had fought Frazier, Spinks, Foreman, etc....would he still be the greatest?

[madsweeney]

was hatton undefeated then? if not who beat him? and who beat him first?

Was JMM undefeated? If not, who beat him first?

[BlackSoul]

and also how can a person be an ATG when he faced 3 fighters ***10))) ****ing times?

[tangalog2200]

Floyd only agreed to fight Manny after he was devastatingly KOd by Marquez and out cold for 5 minutes. A KO like that is going to take something away from a fighter and we could see in the Brandon Rios fight which followed that Marquez defeat, Manny couldn't even stop Rios while relatively light hitting Bradley was able to recently.

Had Manny and Floyd fought prime for primer perhaps the outcome would have been different? Some even believe that Manny beat Floyd in the fight regardless.

It has to be said that, for the most part, Manny has faced some very dangerous opposition although there are catchweight issues with De La Hoya and Cotto, he did face Margarito above 147 at a 150 catchweight and that's a fighter who actually sent Floyd into "retirement", similar to how Khan has recently, without even landing a glove on him.

While Khan of course should rightfully considered above them both on the ATG list due to them both avoiding him in recent times, that reality aside, should Manny still be placed above Floyd ATG-wise due to Floyd essentially facing a faded Pacquiao?

putting khan's name above? what a joke thread this is!?

[BlackSoul]

Was JMM undefeated? If not, who beat him first?

mayweather coming out of retirement beat a jmm that jumped two weight classes to fight the p4p king at that time but you see when jmm got to 147 he didnt ask for that rematch when their bodies had become accustom to the weight, why is that?
and also it wasnt manny pacquiao who beat him he lost to a fighter named freddie norwood i believe
so a fighter who we dont know of beat jmm by a UD but it took the "ATG" manny pacquiao 4 tries in which he NEVER got a convincing win over jmm and ultimately got KNOCKED OUT by his nemesis? gyeah i hear you talkin'

[IMDAZED]

and also how can a person be an ATG when he faced 3 fighters ***10))) ****ing times?

I wouldn't say that's a bad thing. They did it a lot back in the days and Pacquiao has had a lot of fights. Even Leonard fought Hagler, Hearns and Duran seven times in total although Pacquiao's opposition fighting three guys multiple times is nowhere near as comparable.

But yeah, this is just a case of sour g****s by posters who haven't gotten over Mayweather-Pacquiao, and the prior few years where Mayweather established himself as the clear best fighter of his generation. He was considered the best before they fought and last year confirmed it.

[madsweeney]

like who? what common opponent wasnt at a catchweight OR coming off of a loss or wasnt in their prime?
morales beat the **** out of pacquiao the first fight.
pacquiao just had the machine behind him morales went on to fight ZAHIR RAHEEM(whom pacquiao CLEARLY DUCKED) at 135lbs and manny pacquiao drained morales BACK DOWN TO 130LBS in order to fight eric morales and you seen the effects also pacquiao faced morales when morales COMING OFF OF A LOSS to ZAHIR RAHEEM.
barrerra wasnt an undefeated fighter but was a good win for pacquiao even tho morales gave him the blueprint to do so.
pacquiao like i said has a c- resume and ALL of his best wins were at CATCHWEIGHT

Common opponents
JMM - Pac fought in prime, in proper weight class. Floyd blew him up 3 weight classes and still came in overweight.
Hatton - Floyd fought him above his best weight class. Pac destroyed him at his best weight class
Cotto - Pac fought 1lb under his best weight. Floyd fought past prime...after Pac beat him
DLH - Both fought a way past prime DLH, Pac climbed 3 weight classes to dominate a drained DLH. Floyd won a competitive fight.

Morales beat Pac in their first fight, nobody disputes that. Nobody was calling for Pac to drop his signed fight with Moralez to fight Raheem. Nobody was asking Pac to fight Raheem due to him only having 2 fights @ 130, and Raheem lost his match following the Morales win. Making up ducks?

Wins over 2 ATGs and JMM > 1 ATG and JMM in the wrong weight class.

[IMDAZED]

Common opponents
JMM - Pac fought in prime, in proper weight class. Floyd blew him up 3 weight classes and still came in overweight.
Hatton - Floyd fought him above his best weight class. Pac destroyed him at his best weight class
Cotto - Pac fought 1lb under his best weight. Floyd fought past prime...after Pac beat him
DLH - Both fought a way past prime DLH, Pac climbed 3 weight classes to dominate a drained DLH. Floyd won a competitive fight.

Morales beat Pac in their first fight, nobody disputes that. Nobody was calling for Pac to drop his signed fight with Moralez to fight Raheem. Nobody was asking Pac to fight Raheem due to him only having 2 fights @ 130, and Raheem lost his match following the Morales win. Making up ducks?

Wins over 2 ATGs and JMM > 1 ATG and JMM in the wrong weight class.

There were quite a few people calling for Pacquiao to fight Raheem instead. You probably didn't notice during your circle jerk. And to be fair, there were a lot of new boxing fans who had signed on during Manny's rise and bought into what Arum was selling regarding a Morales rematch. But the fact remains that you can't pretend Morales was still at ATG form when he rematched Pacquiao and during that unnecessary third bout. You have the benefit of hindsight now so it wouldn't hurt you to use it.