Dariusz Michalczewski's single division run more impressive than Floyd or Roy's.

[JasonBoxing]

And this should end the thread.

Why? Roy 'would have' beaten so many champions that it's uncountable. A huge part of Roy's resume is all the 'would haves'.

[robertzimmerman]

There is definitely a lot to be said for the guys with lengthy runs. Holmes, Klitschko, Louis, Hopkins, Michalzweski, all impressive in their own rights. The division jumping is the thing to do for most guys these days since there are so many of them. But for a guy to take down one challenge and hold sway over a division, year after year, who makes those great non-champions possible, is quite an accomplishment. There aren't many great non-champions these days since there are over a hundred belts.

As for whether or not his run was more impressive, well, you make a good point. He did not retire in the middle of his run like Mayweather did. He did not skip over a division like Jones did who stayed at super middleweight for five minutes after deflating a fat Toney(was there any other kind? Love the guy but what a blob). And Jones had several token fights where he fought some bum with a novelty(like having played basketball earlier that day or fighting with a microphone) which I'm sorry. Jones fan or not, but that is not entertaining and it's a boring waste of time.

However, Michalzewski did hold the then-considered spurious WBO title. Not that the title should be looked at that way now, but it was not respected in those days. Then again, the names on his ledger are pretty close to Jones's. Was very surprised with the Tiger lost to Gonzalez and then KO'd by Tiozzo. But hey, Jones was flattened twice in a row at that weight. I'd say overall, you have a great point. The problem with division jumpers is that they usually don't have one weight class they can claim to have stayed in long enough to be held in high regard for a particular division. But hey. it's about money, not divisions.

You've made some good points.

Dariusz does deserve respect for his long reign. But at the same time, it needs to be put into perspective. The WBO wasn't respected back then, and their rankings left a lot to be desired. They also weren't rated by the likes of the Ring Magazine, and the belt wasn't needed to be declared the undisputed champ in any division. Also, without being disrespectful, a lot of Dariusz's opposition were B-C level guys.

I never agreed with how Dariusz was held to ransom by the WBA, when they said he couldn't hold his WBO belt alongside theirs. I don't like politics like that. But the truth is, he could have kept that WBA belt had he relinquished the WBO. And in my opinion, the reason he didn't do that, is because he was content defending the WBO against lowly opposition (for the most part) for very good money in Germany, similar to what Joe Calzaghe was doing with his version of the belt at SMW in Britain. Dariusz didn't strike me as an ambitious fighter. And in my opinion, when he lost the WBA and the IBF belts, he didn't seem too bothered about it. Again, he seemed more than happy to just defend the WBO belt against whoever his manager lined up for him. His resume paints a very clear picture to me.

With regards to Roy, he skipped divisions because he started out at lower weights, so was able to move up. The reason he didn't stay at SMW for long, is because after he beat Toney, he was unable to get fights with Liles and Benn/Nardiello to unify the division. So he moved up to LHW.

I think Roy had the better overall wins at the weight, where he absolutely dominated guys for the most part. And some of those guys went on to cause Dariusz trouble, and of course Gonzalez beat him. Although admittedly, Dariusz was faded at that point. But I think it was quality over quantity in Roy's favour, and I think the Tarver win eclipses anything that Dariusz did.

[robertzimmerman]

Lol. How? He just exaggerated a bunch of mid tier fighters who Darius would have beaten too. Darius would have beaten everyone Roy beat. Everyone.

Dariusz lost to Gonzalez.

We don't know if he'd have beaten Eric Harding and Antonio Tarver, who were very awkward southpaws.

Richard Hall gave Dariusz lots of problems in two, tough fights.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Great post. I feel like a lot of the guys posting don't even know who Darius was. His run in one division was never lauded by the Americans, yet Hopkins who fought a similar level of opposition during his MW run is often lauded.

Well it's just one of those things. It's about who you see regularly and most American fans saw Hopkins on a normal basis fighting but did not see Dariusz. People lean toward who is available to them. In this age, we can be fans of fighters who fight anywhere through Youtube and the internet, but in the '90s there was none of that and we had to settle for what the American networks gave us. Heck, for me, I only read about him at the local bookstore in a paper that used to be published about boxing and not even in the big magazines of the time. So it was a struggle. Haha. But I agree. Dariusz's run was impressive. 23 straight defenses is hard to argue with.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

You've made some good points.

Dariusz does deserve respect for his long reign. But at the same time, it needs to be put into perspective. The WBO wasn't respected back then, and their rankings left a lot to be desired. They also weren't rated by the likes of the Ring Magazine, and the belt wasn't needed to be declared the undisputed champ in any division. Also, without being disrespectful, a lot of Dariusz's opposition were B-C level guys.

I never agreed with how Dariusz was held to ransom by the WBA, when they said he couldn't hold his WBO belt alongside theirs. I don't like politics like that. But the truth is, he could have kept that WBA belt had he relinquished the WBO. And in my opinion, the reason he didn't do that, is because he was content defending the WBO against lowly opposition (for the most part) for very good money in Germany, similar to what Joe Calzaghe was doing with his version of the belt at SMW in Britain. Dariusz didn't strike me as an ambitious fighter. And in my opinion, when he lost the WBA and the IBF belts, he didn't seem too bothered about it. Again, he seemed more than happy to just defend the WBO belt against whoever his manager lined up for him. His resume paints a very clear picture to me.

With regards to Roy, he skipped divisions because he started out at lower weights, so was able to move up. The reason he didn't stay at SMW for long, is because after he beat Toney, he was unable to get fights with Liles and Benn/Nardiello to unify the division. So he moved up to LHW.

I think Roy had the better overall wins at the weight, where he absolutely dominated guys for the most part. And some of those guys went on to cause Dariusz trouble, and of course Gonzalez beat him. Although admittedly, Dariusz was faded at that point. But I think it was quality over quantity in Roy's favour, and I think the Tarver win eclipses anything that Dariusz did.

Good points, sir. You definitely are upon this subject as your prior posts indicate. I don't know. I just remember Jones back then was on top of the world after Toney for a while and then he seemed to jump up after the bizarre Merqui Sosa non-title stoppage. And well, quality over quantity is usually the way to go. I'm not huge De La Hoya fan, but the guy everybody except for Kostya Tszyu but I don't blame him. No time for every single name. Would have always liked to see that fight. And if Jones could not get fights with them, then what else to do? Makes sense. And if he would not cross the pond, I have to say after the Benn-McClellan fight, I would not blame him at all. If I was a pro, my rule would be to never fight in England. Way too dirty.

[robertzimmerman]

Well it's just one of those things. It's about who you see regularly and most American fans saw Hopkins on a normal basis fighting but did not see Dariusz. People lean toward who is available to them. In this age, we can be fans of fighters who fight anywhere through Youtube and the internet, but in the '90s there was none of that and we had to settle for what the American networks gave us. Heck, for me, I only read about him at the local bookstore in a paper that used to be published about boxing and not even in the big magazines of the time. So it was a struggle. Haha. But I agree. Dariusz's run was impressive. 23 straight defenses is hard to argue with.

Great post.

Many people had hardly seen Dariusz. (me included)

But he ended up becoming famous for being Roy's nemesis at LHW.

It's a shame that we never saw the fight.

[robertzimmerman]

Good points, sir. You definitely are upon this subject as your prior posts indicate. I don't know. I just remember Jones back then was on top of the world after Toney for a while and then he seemed to jump up after the bizarre Merqui Sosa non-title stoppage. And well, quality over quantity is usually the way to go. I'm not huge De La Hoya fan, but the guy everybody except for Kostya Tszyu but I don't blame him. No time for every single name. Would have always liked to see that fight. And if Jones could not get fights with them, then what else to do? Makes sense. And if he would not cross the pond, I have to say after the Benn-McClellan fight, I would not blame him at all. If I was a pro, my rule would be to never fight in England. Way too dirty.

I remember the Sosa fight, when he pushed the ref. Roy gets criticised for ducking fights, but both HBO and Frankie Liles's former manager, Jack O'Halloran, have confirmed that Liles turned down a career high payday to fight Roy in 1996. Jack O'Halloran was furious with Liles, because he was convinced that he'd have beaten Roy.

The Benn fight was also hard to make, because during negotiations in 1995, Don King apparently wanted future options on Roy.

I don't think Roy would ever have fought outside the U.S. when he was prime. He'd been scarred by the Olympics, and he had a huge ego.

Regarding Oscar, I was a big fan, and he deserves an awful lot of respect.

[BattlingNelson]

I don't post here very often, so I don't know if you're a troll. But from what you've typed above, I'm going to have to assume you are.

Elite level fighters?

Ha! They were WBO guys.

While Jones's Guys was HBO Guys.

Look at the list of names not faced from Middleweight to Light Heavyweight again. From Benn to Liles to Michalczewski, the bulk of them were either world class pressure fighters, dangerous punchers, or both. Where are the men on Jones record, in his prime, notable for the ability to turn a fight on a single punch? It might not have been as noticeable had the second Tarver fight not happened, much less the five minute bout of unconsciousness after Johnson, but those things did happen. The result was a fighter who precariously skipped the best punchers of his prime getting blasted out the first time his chin was truly tested. Could his chin have handled eras without HBO contracts?

[BattlingNelson]

I remember the Sosa fight, when he pushed the ref. Roy gets criticised for ducking fights, but both HBO and Frankie Liles's former manager, Jack O'Halloran, have confirmed that Liles turned down a career high payday to fight Roy in 1996. Jack O'Halloran was furious with Liles, because he was convinced that he'd have beaten Roy.

The Benn fight was also hard to make, because during negotiations in 1995, Don King apparently wanted future options on Roy.

I don't think Roy would ever have fought outside the U.S. when he was prime. He'd been scarred by the Olympics, and he had a huge ego.

Regarding Oscar, I was a big fan, and he deserves an awful lot of respect.

It***8217;s a little too convenient to say it was always just unlucky timing, especially from a fighter who picked so many of his own spots. Add just a few more of these names to his record in place of Tony Thornton***8217;s and Ricky Frazier***8217;s and how much quieter do arguments against Jones***8217;s greatness become?

[robertzimmerman]

While Jones's Guys was HBO Guys.

Big fights are hard to make.

Liles simply wasn't interested in 1996.

Evander Holyfield was approached in 1998, but he turned down any possibility of fighting Roy, because at the time, he felt he was in a no win situation.

In 2001, Roy wouldn't go to Germany to fight Dariusz, and Dariusz wouldn't go to the U.S.

In 2002, Hopkins priced himself out of the rematch.

In 2003, a fight with Evander nearly came off, but King pissed him off, which is why he fought Toney instead.

You can have links for everything I've wrote above.

The difference between Roy and Dariusz, is that after negotiations between them broke down, Roy pursued big fights, and actually had them against Ruiz and Tarver. Whereas Dariusz was content to fight guys who Roy had already dominated and broke down.