Is Froch an ATG

[LacedUp]

i wouldn't vote froch into the hall of fame, but he's probably getting in.



he's nowhere near an ATG. can you imagine froch against great middleweights and LHW? he'd get freaking destroyed. he wouldnt' get blitzed in one round, and probably wouldn;'t get stopped against the great MW, but he'd get freaking lit up. dude is slow, and easy to hit. his offense isn't that good. power is overrated. he's just tough, and conditioned.


he's also got one of the more overrated resume of the last 10 years. he lost to the best fighters he fought. he hardly touched andre ward. he could easily have a loss to andre dirrell.

Froch loses a lot of fights on paper, because he's slow and awkward, not a perfect technique. But when it comes to the actual fights he's been in there with every style there was and he's proven extremely hard to beat. Can't see him get "freakig destroyed" by many fighters, but of course a lot of fighters would beat him.

Even Ward, as great as he is, had trouble with Froch late in their fight.

[daggum]

i'm not usually one for triangle theories. that said, something about the "class" of the fighter can be determined through the triangle theory.


watching kessler - calzaghe, and kessler - froch 1, i can't see how you'd think that.


vegas would have froch as a dog, and for good reason.

i had calzaghe-kessler 7-5 for calzaghe and kessler-froch 1 7-5 for froch. where was the big leap in talent from calzaghe? would calzaghe have been able to beat ward seeing how impotent he looked against hopkins? doubtful. he looked sh-it against reid who is basic. a lil foot movement and a right hand and calzaghe looked lost. not saying froch can do that because he's slow as sh-it but calzaghe wasn't on a different level. resume wise if you take out the robbery against hopkins froch's resume destroy's calzaghes. factor in the couple losses calzaghe prob should have and froch is much better in my eyes. then again calzaghe did beat a prime roy jones...

[LacedUp]

i had calzaghe-kessler 7-5 for calzaghe and kessler-froch 1 7-5 for froch. where was the big leap in talent from calzaghe? would calzaghe have been able to beat ward seeing how impotent he looked against hopkins? doubtful. he looked sh-it against reid who is basic. a lil foot movement and a right hand and calzaghe looked lost. not saying froch can do that because he's slow as sh-it but calzaghe wasn't on a different level. resume wise if you take out the robbery against hopkins froch's resume destroy's calzaghes. factor in the couple losses calzaghe prob should have and froch is much better in my eyes. then again calzaghe did beat a prime roy jones...

And Calzaghe is sitting comfortably with a big Golden ring om his finger.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

i had calzaghe-kessler 7-5 for calzaghe and kessler-froch 1 7-5 for froch. where was the big leap in talent from calzaghe? would calzaghe have been able to beat ward seeing how impotent he looked against hopkins? doubtful. he looked sh-it against reid who is basic. a lil foot movement and a right hand and calzaghe looked lost. not saying froch can do that because he's slow as sh-it but calzaghe wasn't on a different level. resume wise if you take out the robbery against hopkins froch's resume destroy's calzaghes. factor in the couple losses calzaghe prob should have and froch is much better in my eyes. then again calzaghe did beat a prime roy jones...

Those fights were absolutely nothing alike. Calzaghe completely undressed Kessler from about the fourth or fifth round on. It was embarrassingly one-sided after that, save for Calzaghe coasting in the final round.

[Weebler I]

i wouldn't vote froch into the hall of fame, but he's probably getting in.

he's nowhere near an ATG. can you imagine froch against great middleweights and LHW? he'd get freaking destroyed. he wouldnt' get blitzed in one round, and probably wouldn;'t get stopped against the great MW, but he'd get freaking lit up. dude is slow, and easy to hit. his offense isn't that good. power is overrated. he's just tough, and conditioned.

Thing is people have been saying this stuff for years about Froch before almost every big fight he's had, he loses almost every fantasy fight but it's a different story in the ring.

Can't underestimate the guy. If at some point his opponent trades, and it usually happens, it's Froch who will always come out on top.

he's also got one of the more overrated resume of the last 10 years. he lost to the best fighters he fought. he hardly touched andre ward. he could easily have a loss to andre dirrell.

Ward and Kessler are the best fighters he has fought, so while he lost to both he also beat one of them. Ward is the only real blemish on his record.

Ward himself could easily have a loss to Sakio Bika, that's boxing, the champs almost all have one debatable decision go their way.

[D-MiZe]

I wouldn't consider him an ATG in general.

But he's definitely an ATG Super Middleweight.

He's arguably the greatest SMW ever, for me he has the beat resume there.

I agree with him being ATG at 168lbs, the division doesn't have much depth. Dan, you said you ranked fighters P4P on more than resume - surely you'd include it for ATG/HoF rankings too?

Give Ward 7 more years to fight contenders and he'd easily surpass Froch's. The only reason why I can agree to your viewpoint now is Froch's win over Jean Pascal.

I'd say...

Ward's win over Froch & Kessler >> Froch's win over Bute & Kessler

But if you were to include 3 of their best wins, I think Froch just beats Ward. Also, people need to stop mentioning Andre Dirrell - it only serves to degrade Froch's claims for HoF/ATG status. He lost to Dirrell in a fight where he was frustrated and neutralised.

Could you imagine Toney vs Froch at 168lbs?

[IronDanHamza]

I agree with him being ATG at 168lbs, the division doesn't have much depth. Dan, you said you ranked fighters P4P on more than resume - surely you'd include it for ATG/HoF rankings too?

Give Ward 7 more years to fight contenders and he'd easily surpass Froch's. The only reason why I can agree to your viewpoint now is Froch's win over Jean Pascal.

I'd say...

Ward's win over Froch & Kessler >> Froch's win over Bute & Kessler

But if you were to include 3 of their best wins, I think Froch just beats Ward. Also, people need to stop mentioning Andre Dirrell - it only serves to degrade Froch's claims for HoF/ATG status. He lost to Dirrell in a fight where he was frustrated and neutralised.

Could you imagine Toney vs Froch at 168lbs?

Agree with pretty much everything.

If Ward can sort out his isses he'll more than likely solidify his spot as the greatest SMW ever. I thought he would have already by now.

I do rank more than resume but resume mostly. Ability and skills come into aswell.

I thought Dirrell won but could have gone either way I thought. Dirrell lost it for himself.

As for Toney-Froch of course I'd definitely pick Toney but Tobey struggled numerous times with much lesser fighters than Froch so you never know. Froch is a tough out for anyone IMO other than Roy Jones and I guess Ward but Ward was feeling the pace late in that fight.

[D-MiZe]

Agree with pretty much everything.

If Ward can sort out his isses he'll more than likely solidify his spot as the greatest SMW ever. I thought he would have already by now.

I do rank more than resume but resume mostly. Ability and skills come into aswell.

I thought Dirrell won but could have gone either way I thought. Dirrell lost it for himself.

As for Toney-Froch of course I'd definitely pick Toney but Tobey struggled numerous times with much lesser fighters than Froch so you never know. Froch is a tough out for anyone IMO other than Roy Jones and I guess Ward but Ward was feeling the pace late in that fight.

I haven't watched the Dirrell fight since it happened but my memory of it is that Froch was being out-boxed badly at times, frustrated by Dirrell not allowing him to work and Dirrell getting slammed . I'm indifferent to that fight though as I thought Dirrell didn't deserve the win for all his holding and playing possum tactics.

I'd say good boxers who can last give Froch problems. Emphasis on the 'who can last'. I think Toney would stop Froch and then the highlights of the fight would be 10 minutes of Toney's counter rights

I hope he gets this fight with Chavez Jr in Vegas, he's given me some great nights and that guarantees to be the war of all wars. I remember watching the Taylor fight on tape delay at midnight on ITV. Wow.

[Run]

It's official.

I'm a xenophobic man who hates people from the United Kingdom.

It's their strange delusions that forced it



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[Run]

Froch openly stated that he's ducking Golovkin.


Muhammad Ali wouldn't even duck the federal f.ucking government. Cowards are Cowards.



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