Ortiz did not beat the count

[.:: JSFD26 ::.]

So when Benji Esteves had 8 on his fingers and Ortiz made it up, it was really 10? LOL

OK, good trolling job though.

Wtf? Watch the ****ing video. Are you serious right now? Your bias towards Mexicans is disgusting and its showing right now. At 8 Ortiz was still on his knee and he was BARELY getting up at 9. BARELY. He didnt completely stand back up till 10.

[torosboxing75]

Same old **** different day WTF

[#1Assassin]

The refs count is consistent....perhaps even slow. He waves his arms (signifiying 10 and out) as Ortiz is rising.

Counted out in the act of rising. He wasn't up.

as soon as his knee got off the canvas he was up, he reacted at nine and within half a second his knee was off the canvas. the fact that he wasnt standing upright is irrelevant, only the soles of his shoes was touching the canvas and that means he is up.

if he was in the act of getting up and another part of his body was still on the floor, counting him out would have been the right thing. that wasnt the case. ref blew it.

this is very fundamental stuff, dude.

[lane99]

Ortiz basically DID beat the count. At worst, he tied the count (after the ref sped up its pace between counting 9 and 10, which qualifies as a mistake by the ref).

If he had not spit out his mouthpiece, this would have been a terrible stoppage. Ortiz waited until 9, and got up. Just as Darren Barker did.

However, because he spit it out, I cut the ref some slack. The mouthpiece out signaled he didn't want to continue and he ref wasn't expecting him to get up, so he jumped the gun a bit on waving Ortiz out.

p.s. If they don't have the rule already, it should be instituted that the ref can DQ you for deliberately spitting out the mouthpiece.

[racer59]

as soon as his knee got off the canvas he was up, he reacted at nine and within half a second his knee was off the canvas. the fact that he wasnt standing upright is irrelevant, only the soles of his shoes was touching the canvas and that means he is up.

if he was in the act of getting up and another part of his body was still on the floor, counting him out would have been the right thing. that wasnt the case. ref blew it.

this is very fundamental stuff, dude.

Thats wrong. The rule as stated by the Association of Boxing Commissions (which is in effect since they fought in Ohio) is very specific:

"The boxer is to be considered to still be in a downed position when rising from a knockdown."

See for yourself if you'd like:

http://www.abcboxing.com/documents/ABC_REFEREE_GUIDELINES.pdf

[Dirk Diggler UK]

as soon as his knee got off the canvas he was up, he reacted at nine and within half a second his knee was off the canvas. the fact that he wasnt standing upright is irrelevant, only the soles of his shoes was touching the canvas and that means he is up.

if he was in the act of getting up and another part of his body was still on the floor, counting him out would have been the right thing. that wasnt the case. ref blew it.

this is very fundamental stuff, dude.

Rising is not "up". Up is up. The clue is in the name. Very fundamental stuff.

[#1Assassin]

Rising is not "up". Up is up. The clue is in the name. Very fundamental stuff.

a knee is either on the canvas or off the canvas, if its off the canvas (along with the rest of your body with the exception of your feet) you beat the count.

dont say things to people online that you wouldnt say to their face, it lets people know what a b!tch you are.

[bojangles1987]

Thats wrong. The rule as stated by the Association of Boxing Commissions (which is in effect since they fought in Ohio) is very specific:

"The boxer is to be considered to still be in a downed position when rising from a knockdown."

See for yourself if you'd like:
http://www.abcboxing.com/documents/A...GUIDELINES.pdf

That...actually completely ends this argument. You can't argue with this.

Ortiz was not standing when the ref waved it off. He was still in the act of rising.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

a knee is either on the canvas or off the canvas, if its off the canvas (along with the rest of your body with the exception of your feet) you beat the count.

dont say things to people online that you wouldnt say to their face, it lets people know what a b!tch you are.

What did I say?

I said the exact same thing as what you said. Only I was right and you were wrong. No need to get upset, kid.

The guy above me posted the rules. Can you read?

Very fundamental stuff.

[lane99]

Case closed

..."The boxer is to be considered to still be in a downed position when rising from a knockdown."

See for yourself if you'd like:
http://www.abcboxing.com/documents/A...GUIDELINES.pdf

That settles it. Not only the ABC, but also most sanctioning bodies which directly comment on it also say you have to be fully upright before you're qualified to beat the count.

Btw, I also see from these guidelines that a fighter CAN get DQ'ed for spitting out his mouthpiece. I wondered about this upthread.

I still consider Ortiz DID beat the count because, to my eyes, he was, just, fully upright before the count of ten. But I'm ok with the stoppage, since he should be DQ'ed for spitting out the mouthpiece anyway.