who is the number 1 super middleweight in the word-FROCH OR WARD

[Simurgh]

Froch can't be no 1 unless he beats Ward. Period.

[New England]

Nah I think most Froch fans realise his limitations and thats why people love him, I agree with what you said about Kessler being over the hill in the rematch and I actually voted for Ward in this poll.

But I still believe the weight drained version of Dawson would've eventually got chased down and taken out in the later rounds by Froch. A fully energised 175lb Dawson would be a different story.

prime, 175 lb dawson toys with froch. he might be the one guy with a pulse that dawson could stop. you don't know boxing and styles if you think otherwise. dawson is too big, moved too well, and his skills were way too taught. the comparison is dirrell, who toyed with froch in spots, and would have walked away with that fight if he didn't have such small nuts.


ward probably still beats him at 175. i can't say for sure, but that's my feeling. ward has great, great boxing skills, great enough to overcome his shortcomings physically in a dawson fight. froch doesn't. the reach, height, and power would be way too much.

[LacedUp]

George Groves resume

James DeGale - At the time 10-0; DeGale wasn't even a top 10 SMW. DeGale is currently #7 and Groves fought him over 3 years ago.

Glen Johnson - Do I even need to touch on this? Johnson, God bless his heart, lost 3 consecutive fights before even facing Groves to make it 4 straight.

Paul Smith

Fransico Sierra

Noe Alcoba

That's it. That's Groves resume.


Edwin Rodriguez:

Don George - Holds a pretty good 1st round KO over Corneilus White

Dennis Grachev - Holds wins over Erdei, Sillah and arguably over Lucian Bute.

Jason Escalara

Ezequieal Maderna

Will Rosinsky


This is my theory, unless you're saying James DeGale (10-0) hold more weight than Grachev/George, because I refuse to count Glen Johnson coming off 3 straight losses, then Rodriguez clearly has the better resume. The rest of notable victories of Groves and Rodriguez either cancel each other out or go to Rodriguez, imo.

Lastly, let's look at why Chad Dawson is borderline HOF, especially when you consider Arturo Gatti being a HOF'er:

Harding
Ademek
Johnson
Tarver x2
Diaconu
Bernard Hopkins

Chad Dawson is not a borderline HOFamer - he'll never be a hall of famer at all, so you can drop that right there. Gatti gave the world some of the greatest fights EVER and it was probably more a testament to him than anything else.

But thanks for listing the names, Glen Johnson was good enough to get Dawson in contention for HOF in 2009 when he already had 12 losses but was dead in 2012, I understand #nobias.

James DeGale is easily the best fighter/name on each guys resume, an olympic gold medalist who became EBU champ and then now is #1 for a world title shot. Then you can add the Alcoba ranked in the top 5 by two orgs, Paul Smith who's also now fighting for a world title and tough guys like Adamu and Kenny Anderson.

Add to that the he gave Froch the toughest night of his career and was wrongfully stopped in the first fight - and I'd say he absolutely ****s on Rodriguez who couldn't even make weight for the biggest fight of his career.

[IronDanHamza]

It's hard because Froch has done so much more in the last 3 years as opposed to Ward who's done nothing at all what so ever.

But Ward beat Froch in one sided fashion.

So it's difficult.

[LacedUp]

do you just cover your face while andre ward pounds on your heroes?

seriously, do you guys watch fights?

andre ward does not want the ref to break them up. andre ward wants to keep his hands free and work inside. he has very short arms for a world class boxer at 168 lbs. it's a testament to his schooling and athletic talent that he can even fight on the outside.


ward tried to keep his hands free in the kessler fight. as the great teddy atlas says, "it takes two ta clinch." kessler initiated much of the clinches. ward generally looked to keep his hands free and work. later on, when it was clear that he had won virutally every round, he was probably OK with the ref breaking them apart.


in fact, if you actually watch boxing, you'll see that it's often kessler who tries to initiate the clinch. it's almost always kessler who tries to sustain the clinch, while ward tries to get his hands free.

does his head come into the equation some? sure. it's a tool that you use inside to keep your hands free, and all great fighters inside use it. that does not mean you head out there trying to cut your opponent open, or bash him around, the way evander holyfield used to clearly try and do.

You're right man. I don't really watch boxing - especially of a fighter I've considered an acquaintance for years and who was my neighbour for 2 years

Ward was dirty man, and lol at using the Holyfield comparison, as if Holyfield also wasn't dirty

Just one point-its easy to judge Dawson now. When he fought ward he was seen in a totally different light.

You wouldn't have picked froch or groves over Dawson then-HBO likely would never have made a froch or groves v Dawson fight back then because it would have been seen as a whitewash, even at 168 as Dawson was a top p4p fighter, as was ward and neither froch nor groves were that highly thought of or accomplished.

A lot of people said before the fight that Dawson would be dead at the weight. But it just became even clearer in the fight. Why would you deny it when it was that clear?

[LacedUp]

you guys are freaking delusional.

It's factual though.

Not saying that means Groves > Ward by any means, what I'm saying is that Rodriguez would be nothing but a Yusuf Mack on Froch's resume - but you're trying to build him up to be something special when he's clearly not.

Ward just can't punch, so he's having to go 12 rounds with kids like that.

[New England]

Chad Dawson is not a borderline HOFamer - he'll never be a hall of famer at all, so you can drop that right there. Gatti gave the world some of the greatest fights EVER and it was probably more a testament to him than anything else.

But thanks for listing the names, Glen Johnson was good enough to get Dawson in contention for HOF in 2009 when he already had 12 losses but was dead in 2012, I understand #nobias.

James DeGale is easily the best fighter/name on each guys resume, an olympic gold medalist who became EBU champ and then now is #1 for a world title shot. Then you can add the Alcoba ranked in the top 5 by two orgs, Paul Smith who's also now fighting for a world title and tough guys like Adamu and Kenny Anderson.

Add to that the he gave Froch the toughest night of his career and was wrongfully stopped in the first fight - and I'd say he absolutely ****s on Rodriguez who couldn't even make weight for the biggest fight of his career.

lol, three years is a freaking lifetime in boxing, man.

johnson was also clearly drained of weight at 168. he was much older than dawson, and had been at 175 for a decade. it doesn't matter unless it'
s an andre ward opponent, doe.

[LacedUp]

lol, three years is a freaking lifetime in boxing, man.

johnson was also clearly drained of weight at 168. he was much older than dawson, and had been at 175 for a decade. it doesn't matter unless it'
s an andre ward opponent, doe.

I just think it's funny that a guy with 12 losses can put someone in contention for the HOF and then he's spoken of like a cripple when he fights Groves 3 years later on the back of some really good performances against Froch for instance.

[KevinHenry007]

Chad Dawson is not a borderline HOFamer - he'll never be a hall of famer at all, so you can drop that right there. Gatti gave the world some of the greatest fights EVER and it was probably more a testament to him than anything else.

But thanks for listing the names, Glen Johnson was good enough to get Dawson in contention for HOF in 2009 when he already had 12 losses but was dead in 2012, I understand #nobias.

James DeGale is easily the best fighter/name on each guys resume, an olympic gold medalist who became EBU champ and then now is #1 for a world title shot. Then you can add the Alcoba ranked in the top 5 by two orgs, Paul Smith who's also now fighting for a world title and tough guys like Adamu and Kenny Anderson.

Add to that the he gave Froch the toughest night of his career and was wrongfully stopped in the first fight - and I'd say he absolutely ****s on Rodriguez who couldn't even make weight for the biggest fight of his career.

So let me understand this. You crap on Dennis Grachev who argubaly beat Bute, beat Erdei and beat Sillah, but you're up here mentioning guys like Kenny Anderson and Paul Smith??

Even at this point in DeGale's career, 3 years later, he's still a contender who's lone step up in competition was a loss to George Groves. Let me ask you this, who's DeGale's best win, right now?

Then you down Chad Dawson and say he'll never be a HOF'er. I think that remains to be seen. Especially given he was one win away (i.e. Andre Ward) in being a bonafide HOF'er. We'll see if he can get a similar win later in his career. But for you to dismiss Dawson as not being borderline and crap on Grachev/George the way you are and give so much credit to Paul Smith and Kenny Anderson is transparently funny and thus making your motives quite clear.

[The Big Dunn]

You're right man. I don't really watch boxing - especially of a fighter I've considered an acquaintance for years and who was my neighbour for 2 years

Ward was dirty man, and lol at using the Holyfield comparison, as if Holyfield also wasn't dirty



A lot of people said before the fight that Dawson would be dead at the weight. But it just became even clearer in the fight. Why would you deny it when it was that clear?

You are correct about this. You can fairly argue the Dawson win would have been more impressive if it was at 175. I didn't deny it.

Even if that is the case-my point still stands that Froch nor groves would have been approved by HBO for Dawson because of where they were.

Froch has admirably worked his way up the ladder and then maintained his spot by beating those beneath him. But he will not be the best SMW until Ward officially retires. Why? Because I saw them fight each other.

Imagine if someone tried to argue andre dirrell is better than froch if he keeps winning and froch is off for a year?