who is the number 1 super middleweight in the word-FROCH OR WARD

[BodiesInFlight]

dawson's movement would always trouble froch. dawson takes these gigantic steps. i've seen him fight live. you really can't appreciate how big his bones are until you're in the arena. he covers ground very easily, and froch's arm length wouldn't give him issues.




you all know damn well that you'd be championing chad dawson @ 168 if froch beat him.


yusaf mack was a 175 lber as well. unlike dawson, he ******.

froch fans be like, "carl beat yusaf mack doe."

Now on to Straw man tactics
He's going all out!

[KevinHenry007]

Edwin Rodriguez does not have a better resume than Groves GTFO

George Groves resume

James DeGale - At the time 10-0; DeGale wasn't even a top 10 SMW. DeGale is currently #7 and Groves fought him over 3 years ago.

Glen Johnson - Do I even need to touch on this? Johnson, God bless his heart, lost 3 consecutive fights before even facing Groves to make it 4 straight.

Paul Smith

Fransico Sierra

Noe Alcoba

That's it. That's Groves resume.


Edwin Rodriguez:

Don George - Holds a pretty good 1st round KO over Corneilus White

Dennis Grachev - Holds wins over Erdei, Sillah and arguably over Lucian Bute.

Jason Escalara

Ezequieal Maderna

Will Rosinsky


This is my theory, unless you're saying James DeGale (10-0) hold more weight than Grachev/George, because I refuse to count Glen Johnson coming off 3 straight losses, then Rodriguez clearly has the better resume. The rest of notable victories of Groves and Rodriguez either cancel each other out or go to Rodriguez, imo.

Lastly, let's look at why Chad Dawson is borderline HOF, especially when you consider Arturo Gatti being a HOF'er:

Harding
Ademek
Johnson
Tarver x2
Diaconu
Bernard Hopkins

[Butt stuff]

dawson's movement would always trouble froch. dawson takes these gigantic steps. i've seen him fight live. you really can't appreciate how big his bones are until you're in the arena. he covers ground very easily, and froch's arm length wouldn't give him issues.




you all know damn well that you'd be championing chad dawson @ 168 if froch beat him.


yusaf mack was a 175 lber as well. unlike dawson, he ******.

froch fans be like, "carl beat yusaf mack doe."

Nah I think most Froch fans realise his limitations and thats why people love him, I agree with what you said about Kessler being over the hill in the rematch and I actually voted for Ward in this poll.

But I still believe the weight drained version of Dawson would've eventually got chased down and taken out in the later rounds by Froch. A fully energised 175lb Dawson would be a different story.

[The Big Dunn]

Yeah, but that depends how you rank them. You suggest a ranking based on the outcome of fantasyfights and possibly perceived skills while I prefer looking on actual recent resumé.

No I don't. I go strictly by resume. Froch's wins since the Ward loss have been good but you are suggesting the quantity somehow makes froch the #1 SMW. he can't be because he lost clearly to Ward.

Ward is inactive while he works out his legal issues. His trying to handle his business doesn't elevate Carl past him. froch has some good wins and I see him as one of the 10 best p4p fighters in the world.

But the best SMW in the world is Ward-he proved it in the ring. Wins do not have an expiration date.

[LacedUp]

it's my understanding that froch was on sky early on, and dropped. he was later picked up only after the other british fighters [hatton, haye, khan,] faded away. he's the crap left over. he gets sky's sloppy seconds. he's only become massively popular in the advent of the decline of khan, and the retirement of haye and hatton.


it's only a brit who champions the groves wins, and sh#Ts on the rodriguez win or the dawson win. george groves is a much lesser fighter than you appear to think he is. dawson is a better win than groves. they could have fought at 160. george groves is nobody, and only popular because he's a white british kid.

the wins really aren't all that different. froch struggled with groves. groves had him unconscious for a brief moment in the first fight. most british refs would have stopped that fight, and please don't show your bias and tell me that they wouldn't have stopped ward if he were hurt like that.

Like I said, you're ill informed. It had nothing to do with sloppy seconds or anything like that - Sky signed exclusive deals with a certain promoter leaving guys like Froch to fight on stations like Primetime - which is nothing really. Froch then signed with said promoter and fought on Sky again, but did you expect him to be a PPV star instantly? He'd been away from the spotlight for years. You should think about why Ward isn't on PPV.

Froch has provided Sky with a heap of great fights, both on PPV and on normal Sky, so I'm sure they are quite happy with him - as opposed to the likes of Khan and Haye who didn't really provide Sky with that many great nights.

I would put money on Groves spanking the beshizzle out of Chad Dawson at 168. For real. Never mind Rodriguez, Groves would smash him easy. Chad Dawson was dead at the weight - what's the problem in admitting this? Not saying Ward wouldn't have done the same to him at 175, because I believe he would - but Dawson was so clearly affected by the weight in that fight.

Groves put up a better performance than Ward against Froch in the first 6 rounds - just to give you an idea about how good he is. But you still say he's equal to someone like Rodriguez? Get out with that man.

Not sure if Ward would have been stopped - Froch was up by the count of 6 or something, if Ward would have caught that shot he probably wouldn't have gotten up at all.

[New England]

Haha, please don't bring up Andre "accidental headbutt" Ward's win over Kessler where he clinched more than 100 times and headbuttet 5 times opening up cuts over both Kessler's eyes.

American school of boxing doe.

do you just cover your face while andre ward pounds on your heroes?

seriously, do you guys watch fights?

andre ward does not want the ref to break them up. andre ward wants to keep his hands free and work inside. he has very short arms for a world class boxer at 168 lbs. it's a testament to his schooling and athletic talent that he can even fight on the outside.


ward tried to keep his hands free in the kessler fight. as the great teddy atlas says, "it takes two ta clinch." kessler initiated much of the clinches. ward generally looked to keep his hands free and work. later on, when it was clear that he had won virutally every round, he was probably OK with the ref breaking them apart.


in fact, if you actually watch boxing, you'll see that it's often kessler who tries to initiate the clinch. it's almost always kessler who tries to sustain the clinch, while ward tries to get his hands free.

does his head come into the equation some? sure. it's a tool that you use inside to keep your hands free, and all great fighters inside use it. that does not mean you head out there trying to cut your opponent open, or bash him around, the way evander holyfield used to clearly try and do.

[New England]

here's the kessler fight, commentated in a language i can't understand.




let's actually watch fights for once, boys, not just complain about them on bscene.

[New England]

Like I said, you're ill informed. It had nothing to do with sloppy seconds or anything like that - Sky signed exclusive deals with a certain promoter leaving guys like Froch to fight on stations like Primetime - which is nothing really. Froch then signed with said promoter and fought on Sky again, but did you expect him to be a PPV star instantly? He'd been away from the spotlight for years. You should think about why Ward isn't on PPV.

Froch has provided Sky with a heap of great fights, both on PPV and on normal Sky, so I'm sure they are quite happy with him - as opposed to the likes of Khan and Haye who didn't really provide Sky with that many great nights.

I would put money on Groves spanking the beshizzle out of Chad Dawson at 168. For real. Never mind Rodriguez, Groves would smash him easy. Chad Dawson was dead at the weight - what's the problem in admitting this? Not saying Ward wouldn't have done the same to him at 175, because I believe he would - but Dawson was so clearly affected by the weight in that fight.

Groves put up a better performance than Ward against Froch in the first 6 rounds - just to give you an idea about how good he is. But you still say he's equal to someone like Rodriguez? Get out with that man.

Not sure if Ward would have been stopped - Froch was up by the count of 6 or something, if Ward would have caught that shot he probably wouldn't have gotten up at all.

you guys are freaking delusional.

[bojangles1987]

Look at the poll.

[The Big Dunn]

Like I said, you're ill informed. It had nothing to do with sloppy seconds or anything like that - Sky signed exclusive deals with a certain promoter leaving guys like Froch to fight on stations like Primetime - which is nothing really. Froch then signed with said promoter and fought on Sky again, but did you expect him to be a PPV star instantly? He'd been away from the spotlight for years. You should think about why Ward isn't on PPV.

Froch has provided Sky with a heap of great fights, both on PPV and on normal Sky, so I'm sure they are quite happy with him - as opposed to the likes of Khan and Haye who didn't really provide Sky with that many great nights.

I would put money on Groves spanking the beshizzle out of Chad Dawson at 168. For real. Never mind Rodriguez, Groves would smash him easy. Chad Dawson was dead at the weight - what's the problem in admitting this? Not saying Ward wouldn't have done the same to him at 175, because I believe he would - but Dawson was so clearly affected by the weight in that fight.

Groves put up a better performance than Ward against Froch in the first 6 rounds - just to give you an idea about how good he is. But you still say he's equal to someone like Rodriguez? Get out with that man.

Not sure if Ward would have been stopped - Froch was up by the count of 6 or something, if Ward would have caught that shot he probably wouldn't have gotten up at all.

Just one point-its easy to judge Dawson now. When he fought ward he was seen in a totally different light.

You wouldn't have picked froch or groves over Dawson then-HBO likely would never have made a froch or groves v Dawson fight back then because it would have been seen as a whitewash, even at 168 as Dawson was a top p4p fighter, as was ward and neither froch nor groves were that highly thought of or accomplished.