Is Andre Ward still #P4P no.2???

[IronDanHamza]

LMAO,I don't believe anyone is getting bitten on a reg basis..I mean I can not say biting someone is the equal to any fouls mentioned..That was some crazy **** that was not seen or ever be seen again..

Right, not the same is it? Both fouls, but of different equivalence.

Just like moving down 7 lbs to a weight you haven't been at in 7 years isn't regular either.

Losing 1 lb is still losing weight, but is it the same as losing 7? No of course not.

Hence the point, putting everything under the same blanket is just out and out ludicrous. It's completely illogical.

[Daddy T]

He's still top 5 and I won't argue with anybody who still has him at number 2 but imo he ain't done **** lately to justify a number 2 p4p ranking. If he fights 1 guy between now and 2016 (and that guy is Rodriguez level) should he still be ranked at number 2?

for instance if he had moved up to 175 and beaten say stevenson ... what would his p4p ranking be? ... Well it would be no 2 ... so basically doing **** all gets him the same ranking as going balls to the wall in some people's eyes.

[lewishamboy]

Rome no offense but your argument is not making sense...

YES a foul is a foul in the general sense...but that is a blanket cliche

Saying that 25 low blows is the same as 1 low blow is ridiculous. It's like saying scoring one goal is the same as scoring a hat-trick because a goal is a goal...it's just nonsensical.

[lewishamboy]

Anyway, how can a fighter who's only fought a clearly weight drained Dawson and Edwin Rodriguez since 2012 b p4p number 2 ahead of Pacquiao & Wlad? Do certain people here really rate the wins against froch and Kessler that highly?

[Rome-By-Ko]

Right, not the same is it? Both fouls, but of different equivalence.

Just like moving down 7 lbs to a weight you haven't been at in 7 years isn't regular either.

Losing 1 lb is still losing weight, but is it the same as losing 7? No of course not.

Hence the point, putting everything under the same blanket is just out and out ludicrous. It's completely illogical.

It's really not,but I'm truly done with this convo in all honesty..I feel an weight advantage is a weight advantage..It should be looked at all the same..esp when Ward was not the one who ask for any weight stipulations anyway..Dawson offered them..I feel like,to hold this against Ward(which your doing)is not only illogical,but flat out foolish and wrong..Then you allude that Ward is worse then Pac or Mayweather(who asked for a weight stipulation),yet Ward never ask Dawson to come down,again Dawson offered it..

This has been my point from jump street..All the other idiot comparisons I went along with,for the sport of conversational combat..Let's be honesty tho,Dawson wanted to come down and fight Ward..He(according to you cause you have nothing solid to back your claim)could not do it..Cool,I don't take anything away from Ward(you do as it's ya right),cause all he can do is train and get prepared to fight who they put in front of him..Why is it Wards fault that Dawson had trouble making the weight??Why does Ward get penalized for excepting a challenge??

By the way,shooting someone in the ring I'm guessing would be a foul as well..To compare it to holding or low blowing is the real thing that's ludicrous..

[BattlingNelson]

It's really not,but I'm truly done with this convo in all honesty..I feel an weight advantage is a weight advantage..It should be looked at all the same..esp when Ward was not the one who ask for any weight stipulations anyway..Dawson offered them..I feel like,to hold this against Ward(which your doing)is not only illogical,but flat out foolish and wrong..Then you allude that Ward is worse then Pac or Mayweather(who asked for a weight stipulation),yet Ward never ask Dawson to come down,again Dawson offered it..

This has been my point from jump street..All the other idiot comparisons I went along with,for the sport of conversational combat..Let's be honesty tho,Dawson wanted to come down and fight Ward..He(according to you cause you have nothing solid to back your claim)could not do it..Cool,I don't take anything away from Ward(you do as it's ya right),cause all he can do is train and get prepared to fight who they put in front of him..Why is it Wards fault that Dawson had trouble making the weight??Why does Ward get penalized for excepting a challenge??

By the way,shooting someone in the ring I'm guessing would be a foul as well..To compare it to holding or low blowing is the real thing that's ludicrous..

Nobody is saying it is Ward's fault. What has been said is that a win over Dawson would have been worth a hell of a lot more at 175 lbs than at 168.

[Rome-By-Ko]

Rome no offense but your argument is not making sense...

YES a foul is a foul in the general sense...but that is a blanket cliche

Saying that 25 low blows is the same as 1 low blow is ridiculous. It's like saying scoring one goal is the same as scoring a hat-trick because a goal is a goal...it's just nonsensical.

I really don't know soccer,so I'm a bit loss on your terminology..Yet my point was from the door that an advantage is an advantage..For a guy to tell me Ward had an advantage against Dawson,then try to pretend that Mayweather and Pac did not have advantages against Alvarez and Cotto is nonsensical to me..Dan was trying to paint me into a corner this whole time without ever admitting to this..Which I have a big problem with..Don't detract from one,and not the other..I don't care if it's 1lb or 20lbs..If you gonna detract from one,detract from all of these weight manipulators..

For me,I look at these things as terms..In this case Dawson made his own terms,he could have called Ward out at a catch weight..He did not do it,he could have walked away and turn the fight down(well not according to Dan,he had no choice in the matter..Ok)if he did not get the terms he wanted..He did not it..He fought the fight with confidence he could win..How does Ward now take a hit for this??Please I'm still waiting for someone to explain and give me a good reason for it..Dan sorry,love ya man,but your reason is irrational..If I could be honesty,really unfair as well..

[Rome-By-Ko]

Nobody is saying it is Ward's fault. What has been said is that a win over Dawson would have been worth a hell of a lot more at 175 lbs than at 168.

If your detracting from him,and saying your not counting his victory over Dawson(which is ******ed based on the fact you would have counted a win for Dawson over Ward),then your hold something against Ward..That again Ward had nothing to do with..He did not request that Dawson meet him at 168lb,he excepted a challenge that was issued to him at the weight..

[IronDanHamza]

It's really not,but I'm truly done with this convo in all honesty..I feel an weight advantage is a weight advantage..It should be looked at all the same

Oh my, I thought we'd finally established why 1 lb differs to 7. I still can't actually believe that needs establishing.

..esp when Ward was not the one who ask for any weight stipulations anyway..Dawson offered them..I feel like,to hold this against Ward(which your doing)is not only illogical,but flat out foolish and wrong..Then you allude that Ward is worse then Pac or Mayweather(who asked for a weight stipulation),yet Ward never ask Dawson to come down,again Dawson offered it..

Well firstly, Canelo offered the weight to Mayweather aswell but that's irrelevant.

What's relevant is the actual shape of the fighters when they were in the ring.

This has been my point from jump street..All the other idiot comparisons I went along with,for the sport of conversational combat..Let's be honesty tho,Dawson wanted to come down and fight Ward..He(according to you cause you have nothing solid to back your claim)could not do it..Cool,I don't take anything away from Ward(you do as it's ya right),cause all he can do is train and get prepared to fight who they put in front of him..Why is it Wards fault that Dawson had trouble making the weight??Why does Ward get penalized for excepting a challenge??

There's plenty of solid stuff.

And it's not Ward's fault. I haven't said it was. But again, for the umpteenth time, he's not going to get credit for beating a guy who was dead at the weight.

By the way,shooting someone in the ring I'm guessing would be a foul as well..To compare it to holding or low blowing is the real thing that's ludicrous..

What? YOU are the one that is saying all cheating is the same. Not me.

I'm saying that they are VERY different. You are the one that's saying all cheating is the same as is every situation where a fighter loses weight.

If a fighter managed to smuggle a gun into the ring, and used it and killed his opponent, is that the same as a rabbit punch? Cheating is cheating right? That's exactly what you're saying And you literally just debunked your own argument.

All cheating is obviously not the same, there's different scenarios that are of difference significance

Much like........wait for it....losing weight.

Real simple stuff Can't believe this needs to be broken down to this level.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

If your detracting from him,and saying your not counting his victory over Dawson(which is ******ed based on the fact you would have counted a win for Dawson over Ward),then your hold something against Ward..That again Ward had nothing to do with..He did not request that Dawson meet him at 168lb,he excepted a challenge that was issued to him at the weight..

This is the same dumbass backward logic that was used to justify Mayweather's catchweight against Canelo. "He called me out at 150"....lol.

There's a difference between being willing to do something to secure a big fight and actually wanting to do it. If Dawson had any control of the situation, he'd have fought at 175 - he knew he had to go to 168 and fight in Oakland to secure the fight with Ward.