Is Joe Frazier really an ATG?

[IronDanHamza]

The fact is Frazier didn't really beat the best of his era (excluding Ali), one thing you usually base agt criteria on (I mean beating the best of your era). His championship 'run' consists of 4 defenses before losing to Foreman.

Add to that that Ali beat Frazier twice, Foreman too. Hasim Rahman beat Lennox Lewis, does it make him atg?

If Frazier is ATG, then maybe Juan Manuel Marquez is too.

Frazier didn't just beat the best of his era he beat the best of all time.

[Weltschmerz]

Frazier didn't just beat the best of his era he beat the best of all time.

Lyle, Norton, Shavers, Foster, Martin?

[IronDanHamza]

Lyle, Norton, Shavers?

Muhammad Ali.

[Weltschmerz]

Muhammad Ali.

Norton beat Ali as well. Plus Norton was far better in the rematches. Is Norton ever considered a top 10 HW? Frazier is often there almost as per default, for some reason. Probably because of his fan appeal.

If you look past his win over a past prime Ali, his resume isn't much. Bonavena, Quarry...

[IronDanHamza]

Norton beat Ali as well. Plus Norton was far better in the rematches. Is Norton ever considered a top 10 HW? Frazier is often there almost as per default, for some reason. Probably because of his fan appeal.

If you look past his win over a past prime Ali, his resume isn't much. Bonavena, Quarry...

Norton somewhere in the top 20.

Frazier has a better resume than Norton.

[Rip Chudd]

ONE of the opponents who knocked Klitschko out was a journeyman.

And that journeyman would have pulverised Frazier so badly he'll wish he never took up boxing!

The other 2 were champion boxers who would have annihilated the entire 70's HW division.

One of which, Lamon Brewster was American and would have been heralded as the greatest fighter who ever lived and probably ever will.

If Lamon Brewster was inserted into the 70's, he would be the "greatest" and hardly any HW's would ever WANT to take up professional boxing.

Fact!

Honestly, this is one of the most ******ed posts I've ever read on this site. Keep in mind I've read posts by "Check_hooks". Anyone who has read your post is now dumber for having done so.

[champion4ever]

ONE of the opponents who knocked Klitschko out was a journeyman.

And that journeyman would have pulverised Frazier so badly he'll wish he never took up boxing!

The other 2 were champion boxers who would have annihilated the entire 70's HW division.

One of which, Lamon Brewster was American and would have been heralded as the greatest fighter who ever lived and probably ever will.

If Lamon Brewster was inserted into the 70's, he would be the "greatest" and hardly any HW's would ever WANT to take up professional boxing.

Fact!

Wrong! I was referring to both Klitschkos; Wladimir and Vitali. However, in this instance I was referring to Chris Byrd who had defeated Vitali Klitschko by retiring him on his stool in the year 2000. Byrd was considered a fringe contender at the time because he had been previously stopped by Ike Ibeabuchi the year prior. Which subsequently caused a career setback for him. In addition, he was brought in as a last minute replacement for Donovan "Razor" Ruddock during the last week of the fight. Also, Corrie Sanders was considered a fringe contender also when the WBO sanctioned a bout between himself and Wladdy after fighting only three rounds in his last previous two years.

[Elroy1]

and you're high on this era

There are fat boxers in every era.

At HW, you can be successful whether you are lean and athletic OR chubby as long as you are fast enough to hit your opponent and conditioned enough to go the required rounds.

IF fat were an impediment to boxing performance at HW then there would never be any fat HW boxers!

The difference is, today the champions are ripped, some of their oppoennts aare ripped and some of them are chubby.

In the 70's, the CHAMPIONS themselves were fat!

[Elroy1]

Frazier didn't just beat the best of his era he beat the best of all time.

This is the thing,

Weltsch just explained how Frazier didn't beat the best of his gen (you know, the requirement to be an ATG (like Wlad DID by the way!)

He either didn't fight them or got viciously schooled!

He did beat/have close fights with Muhammad Ali.

No boxer can be the greatest of all time, it doesn't make sense because athletes keep getting better and stronger all the time. He (Ali) could very well have been the greatest we'd seen THEN, but not now.

Who were Ali's best wins?

George Foreman - Good opponent, ridiculous gameplan, sheer luck that Ali wasn't just KO'd but didn't die! Ali only got the drop on Foreman via sheer exhaustion. The victory in this fight must be attributed to luck and Foreman's blind ******ity as much as to Ali for winning it! Please note, George was 218lbs, 15 LBS lighter than the AVERAGE HW today! And could barely BOX! The slower, shorter, lighter, weaker, less athletic version of Wilder today.

Ken Norton - A glass jawed HW with a non-existent punch. Highly athletic but only started to box at age 20. The Seth Mitchel of yesteryear. Many analysts give Norton all 3 fights!

Joe Frazier - A chinny, featherfisted, chubby, punch bag, half-blind bum dwarf. Dereck Chisora today is a bigger, stronger, much tougher version of Joe Frazier. A "Super Frazier!" Many analysts give Frazier 2 of the fights.

Sonny Liston - Possibly the slowest HW of all time and highly uncoordinated, success only through boxing cruisers, losers and bums. The Ross Puritty of the 50's and 60's. First fight was stopped on an injury when the scores were EVEN, and the second was a full blown dive. Ali never really beat Liston!

Earnie Shavers - Total bum, many analysts give this fight to Shavers.

And that's it!

The correct conclusion is that how pathetic of Muhammad Ali to lose to a guy as bad as Frazier or vice verse.

They were both LUCKY they had each other to boost their respective credibility.

Most subsequent eras boxers let alone the champs would **** both those clowns out of there no doubt!

[Scott9945]

This is the thing,

Weltsch just explained how Frazier didn't beat the best of his gen (you know, the requirement to be an ATG (like Wlad DID by the way!)

He either didn't fight them or got viciously schooled!

He did beat/have close fights with Muhammad Ali.

No boxer can be the greatest of all time, it doesn't make sense because athletes keep getting better and stronger all the time. He (Ali) could very well have been the greatest we'd seen THEN, but not now.

Who were Ali's best wins?

George Foreman - Good opponent, ridiculous gameplan, sheer luck that Ali wasn't just KO'd but didn't die! Ali only got the drop on Foreman via sheer exhaustion. The victory in this fight must be attributed to luck and Foreman's blind ******ity as much as to Ali for winning it! Please note, George was 218lbs, 15 LBS lighter than the AVERAGE HW today! And could barely BOX! The slower, shorter, lighter, weaker, less athletic version of Wilder today.

Ken Norton - A glass jawed HW with a non-existent punch. Highly athletic but only started to box at age 20. The Seth Mitchel of yesteryear. Many analysts give Norton all 3 fights!

Joe Frazier - A chinny, featherfisted, chubby, punch bag, half-blind bum dwarf. Dereck Chisora today is a bigger, stronger, much tougher version of Joe Frazier. A "Super Frazier!" Many analysts give Frazier 2 of the fights.

Sonny Liston - Possibly the slowest HW of all time and highly uncoordinated, success only through boxing cruisers, losers and bums. The Ross Puritty of the 50's and 60's. First fight was stopped on an injury when the scores were EVEN, and the second was a full blown dive. Ali never really beat Liston!

Earnie Shavers - Total bum, many analysts give this fight to Shavers.

And that's it!

The correct conclusion is that how pathetic of Muhammad Ali to lose to a guy as bad as Frazier or vice verse.

They were both LUCKY they had each other to boost their respective credibility.

Most subsequent eras boxers let alone the champs would **** both those clowns out of there no doubt!

Only a total agenda driven moron would call Joe Frazier "featherfisted" and Norton's power as "non-existent". Which explains why you would. The rest of your analysis is mostly fictional as well.