Is Joe Frazier really an ATG?

[Elroy1]

Please! if Joe had fought in this current and weakest of Heavyweight boxing eras he would have retired and undefeated champion.

Arreola, Stiverne, Wilder, Fury, Wladimir, Joshua, Povetkin etc etc all would KO him in less than HALF a round.

There is nothing that he could ever do to survive a round conscious let alone WIN one.

If a 5'10" 210lb overweight mandicapped featherfisted, glass jawed plodding midget who marches forward with no defence and no skills, just a left hook could dominate the HW division today, WHERE IS HE?

The last few eras have obviously been the strongest eras ya dummy, look at them!

So what your trying to tell me is that THIS guy...

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/11/8/1320748539179/Joe-Frazier-007.jpg

Is going to be able to "TAKE" this guy?

http://www.goodboxing.net/pictures/3253.gif

Have another drink mate!

[champion4ever]

Basically when you claim Frazier as an ATG, you are only making that claim against the criteria of his day.

Today, Frazier's record at HW would only be 13-4.

Today, we would call such a fighter a total bum.

But it's worse, Frazier could never pad his record today against such terrible opposition, the opponents are not just stronger but far more skilled and far more athletic on average than Frazier's opponents ever were.

So in reality he could probably not even win a fight at HW anymore.

I prefer the term OTG.. "One Time Great"

Even still, against the criteria of his own era, who did he beat? Muhammad Ali, the most overrated boxer in history and another who would be nothing much more than an easy KO for any serious HW.

Other than that he is famous only for getting pulverised by George Foreman 2ce an aggressive opponent who had a big punch but who could barely even BOX at that time!

There is good reason to want to doubt him even historically s an ATG!

The bottom line is that the heavyweight division was a lot more competitive in Joe Frazier's day than it is today. They didn't call his era of the 1960s and 1970s the Golden era for nothing. It's because fighters back then could actually fight and they were a lot hungrier too; Which was why the fights were so much more competitive then as opposed to the heavy weight fighters of today whose sole purpose appear to just show up and collect a payday. However, Frazier on the other hand was of the Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano ilk. He actually came to fight to win.

Lastly Joe Frazier would have mopped the floor with this era of heavyweight boxers. They wouldn't stand a chance against him. Even though he would have been a bit undersized, he would have defeated them on just his sheer will and determination alone.

[champion4ever]

Arreola, Stiverne, Wilder, Fury, Wladimir, Joshua, Povetkin etc etc all would KO him in less than HALF a round.

There is nothing that he could ever do to survive a round conscious let alone WIN one.

If a 5'10" 210lb overweight mandicapped featherfisted, glass jawed plodding midget who marches forward with no defence and no skills, just a left hook could dominate the HW division today, WHERE IS HE?

The last few eras have obviously been the strongest eras ya dummy, look at them!

So what your trying to tell me is that THIS guy...

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/11/8/1320748539179/Joe-Frazier-007.jpg

Is going to be able to "TAKE" this guy?

http://www.goodboxing.net/pictures/3253.gif

Have another drink mate!

My friend, you're insane. No true rational boxing fan would subscribe to your point of view. Of all the people you named: Arreola, Stiverne, Klitschko, Wilder, Fury, Povetkin and Joshua. Are you really serious? Joe would have had a cake walk in the park with those guys; Especially with Klitschko because remember Wladdy doesn't like to hit or get hit. Frazier would have gobbled him up like Pac man.

[Elroy1]

The bottom line is that the heavyweight division was a lot more competitive in Joe Frazier's day than it is today. They didn't call his era of the 1960s and 1970s the Golden era for nothing. It's because fighters back then could actually fight and they were a lot hungrier too; Which was why the fights were so much more competitive then as opposed to the heavy weight fighters of today whose sole purpose appear to just show up and collect a payday. However, Frazier on the other hand was of the Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano ilk. He actually came to fight to win.

Lastly Joe Frazier would have mopped the floor with this era of heavyweight boxers. They wouldn't stand a chance against him. Even though he would have been a bit undersized, he would have defeated them on just his sheer will and determination alone.

Let's analyse what you said for it's relevance/validity:

Golden era, more like olden era. A term coined for American oldies by American oldies with no relevance now. Records say they were worse, weights say they were worse.

A quick look at key fights reveals what I know is the broad truth cause I've seen a great many. Those HW's were scrappy brawlers and uncoordinated with little regard for defense. And that was ok because they were so much weaker, they didn't have to! Just a quick look at them and you can tell in moments those guys would not be winning anything.

The reason the fights were competitive was because there was nobody really good/strong enough to dominate then.

Hungrier? This is a professional sport now, meaningless, baseless statement. You think todays boxers don't know how to fight? The object now is to take the head off of the opponent.

Appear to just show up and collect a pay day? What fights are you watching? This is the sport of boxing, in the hardest hitting era of HW boxing ever where even a single hard unprotected shot can end a career. NOBODY just shows up to lose, again, it's a professional sport now!

Ali, Louis, Dempsey, MArciano would play no relevance today though, Ali and Louis would fight in the CW division and Dempsey and Mrciano probably the light HW.

MArciano never even fought a HW who wasn't a complete bum

And Dempsey's entire career was based around ducking black fighters and dangerous opponents anyway!

And this is the best one...

"FRAZIER WOULD HAVE MOPPED THE FLOOR WITH THE CURRENT HW DIVISION ON SHEER WILL ALONE"



Funny mate! A chinny featherfist 1 eyes dwarf in an era chock full of superheavyweight punchers.

Let's analyse Frazier at a glance.

Blind on left eye
5'11" Second shortest opponent WK ever fought
Started as Cruiser, Average weight 205lbs, WK never once fought anybody as light
Career record 32-4, pretty average BUT
Modern HW record 13-4 (BUM)
Never faced an opponent the size of the AVERAGE HW today
Ducked all the hard punchers of his division except Geroge Foreman who was mandatory, got smashed badly.
Boxed 9 times against natural HW's, scored 4 KO's against total bums and 1 against Mathis through exhaustion (total featherfist)

And so on!

[DARKSEID]

The only thing he has really going for him is the first Ali fight.

Other than that, his career is pretty mediocre. He wasn't dominating as a champion, and doesn't have other impressive wins.

If anything, Frazier showed that Ali is overrated.

You're a fucking moron. How a klitschko ****-rider could call one of the greatest heavyweights of all time, fighting in one of the golden eras of boxing overrated is absolutely mind boggling and sickening.

If klitschko was alive in ali's time, nobody would know who he is. The fighters in Ali's day were lions. Wladimir isn't fit to clean their jockstraps.

Was Frazier an ATG? The truth and answers are proven in the ring:

(like the truth that you don't know a mother****ing thing about boxing.)

[New England]

newbies....

[bojangles1987]

newbies....

FoTC was the Thrilla in Manila doe.

[New England]

your an old fool, fully exposed!

Ellis was a chinny featherfist and a cruiser.
Buster Mathis was a bloated fat ass! Who Frazier only won against because Buster had never had to drug his fat butt around for so many rounds before.
Bonavena was a cruiser bum
Quarry was a natural light HW runner who looked like he needed a sandwich not a fight
Bob Foster was again a tiny boxer with no relevance as a HW whatsoever
Joe Bugner was the very definition of a slow plodder with no skills at all
And George Chuvalo was nothing but a chin on legs, and that's a point of contention too because the only time he ever met what we would today consider a hard puncher in Foreman he was stopped in 2.5 rounds. His chin is totally untested against real hitters.

Muhammad Ali was a featherfist plodder who had no reflexes whatsoever and only survived opponents by hugging them and allowing them to punch themselves out on his head and body.

This masterful strategy only works against guys like Frazier who don't have any skills or any power and are 5'10" tall and 210lbs fat!

So basically, Frazier's entire career ******!

and you're high on this era

[Weltschmerz]

The fact is Frazier didn't really beat the best of his era (excluding Ali), one thing you usually base agt criteria on (I mean beating the best of your era). His championship 'run' consists of 4 defenses before losing to Foreman.

Add to that that Ali beat Frazier twice, Foreman too. Hasim Rahman beat Lennox Lewis, does it make him atg?

If Frazier is ATG, then maybe Juan Manuel Marquez is too.

[jas]