Is Joe Frazier really an ATG?

[Elroy1]

The irony there is just so ****ing rich. Wilder has basically fought 32 Mel Turnbows (who Frazier fought in just his 5th pro fight). And Leapai and Chisora would barely be good enough to spar with Joe Frazier.

The difference is that you look at statistics and apply size to validate your whack theories. Experienced fans use their own eyes to see the class differences in these fighters. My advice, watch more fights, read less boxrec.

Wrong!

I use my own eyes and not listen to the heresay of old men. And I see strong HW's with good skills today in a much better class of opposition. And I see nothing but skinny, soft molluscs in the 70's with scrappy, rudimentary skills that would barely be good enough for the CW division for the most part today.

And then I back it up with size and quality together. And I do this not anecdotally but with cold hard evidence.

For me the observation comes first, then the evidence, then the theory is built around that. That's the way it's always SUPPOSED to work!

I assure you I have seen enough fights to know with 100% certainty I am not wrong on this subject, it's my expertise!

Frazier would not qualify as a sparring partner today don't be ******!

And glad you mentioned the "bummy" opponents of Wilder because he is the prime example of how the media promotes it when a boxer fights what is today regarded as "sub-par" opposition.

Take a lot at this article and follow the logic/stats closely...

http://www.heavyweightblog.com/4088/...-era#more-4088

[bojangles1987]

Take a lot at this article and follow the logic/stats closely...

http://www.heavyweightblog.com/4088/...-era#more-4088

That's who this is. Okay, I wasn't sure before.

[Scott9945]

Wrong!

I use my own eyes and not listen to the heresay of old men. And I see strong HW's with good skills today in a much better class of opposition. And I see nothing but skinny, soft molluscs in the 70's with scrappy, rudimentary skills that would barely be good enough for the CW division for the most part today.

And then I back it up with size and quality together. And I do this not anecdotally but with cold hard evidence.

For me the observation comes first, then the evidence, then the theory is built around that. That's the way it's always SUPPOSED to work!

I assure you I have seen enough fights to know with 100% certainty I am not wrong on this subject, it's my expertise!

Frazier would not qualify as a sparring partner today don't be ******!

And glad you mentioned the "bummy" opponents of Wilder because he is the prime example of how the media promotes it when a boxer fights what is today regarded as "sub-par" opposition.

Take a lot at this article and follow the logic/stats closely...

http://www.heavyweightblog.com/4088/...-era#more-4088

If laughing at that idiocy makes me ******, then I hope to keep getting dumber. Built up records and juiced up size stats mean nothing to people who know what they are talking about.

[Elroy1]

If laughing at that idiocy makes me ******, then I hope to keep getting dumber. Built up records and juiced up size stats mean nothing to people who know what they are talking about.

Yes, we should trust your gut feeling instead.

Your baseless words mean more than real evidence ever could!



Frazier is obsolete as a sparring partner today, today we have these things called "heavy bags" That are very easy to hit and offer not much to worry about back, just like Frazier!

Except todays Heavy bags can take many shots before they are broken, unlike Joe Frazier!

[Elroy1]

Show me single credible boxing analyst who thinks Joe Frazier would be able to compete as a professional boxer today?

You know, someone "scientific".

[Scott9945]

Show me single credible boxing analyst who thinks Joe Frazier would be able to compete as a professional boxer today?

You know, someone "scientific".

Show me one who doesn't. And please don't count yourself as credible. Also be careful what you label as "scientific", because so far I haven't seen it.

[bigcursedawg]

Another classic nsb thread. This is why I rarely post on here anymore, this **** is just laughable.

[boxingenius002]

This is either a really bored troll or just someone who has never boxed a day in their life. Joe frazier is no punching bag. The man had an insane system of head movement and a left hook no other fighter has been able to replicate. In my personal opinion he would get inside on klitschko and dominate him for the most part... Lol at Joe not having a chin too. I mean he only got up ****in 6 times to arguably the strongest puncher that ever existed George Foreman. Who by the way came back way past his prime just to say **** you to today's modern fighters.. Dam you really can find anything on the internet including guys who don't know **** about boxing talking **** about boxing lol... There ain't no farmer slave black dudes being called uncle tom and ****in plowin fields all day in a fury to prove themselves anymore. No one in the modern day era is built like joe mentally.

[_original_]

This is the thing,

Weltsch just explained how Frazier didn't beat the best of his gen (you know, the requirement to be an ATG (like Wlad DID by the way!)

He either didn't fight them or got viciously schooled!

He did beat/have close fights with Muhammad Ali.

No boxer can be the greatest of all time, it doesn't make sense because athletes keep getting better and stronger all the time. He (Ali) could very well have been the greatest we'd seen THEN, but not now.

Who were Ali's best wins?

George Foreman - Good opponent, ridiculous gameplan, sheer luck that Ali wasn't just KO'd but didn't die! Ali only got the drop on Foreman via sheer exhaustion. The victory in this fight must be attributed to luck and Foreman's blind ******ity as much as to Ali for winning it! Please note, George was 218lbs, 15 LBS lighter than the AVERAGE HW today! And could barely BOX! The slower, shorter, lighter, weaker, less athletic version of Wilder today.

Ken Norton - A glass jawed HW with a non-existent punch. Highly athletic but only started to box at age 20. The Seth Mitchel of yesteryear. Many analysts give Norton all 3 fights!

Joe Frazier - A chinny, featherfisted, chubby, punch bag, half-blind bum dwarf. Dereck Chisora today is a bigger, stronger, much tougher version of Joe Frazier. A "Super Frazier!" Many analysts give Frazier 2 of the fights.

Sonny Liston - Possibly the slowest HW of all time and highly uncoordinated, success only through boxing cruisers, losers and bums. The Ross Puritty of the 50's and 60's. First fight was stopped on an injury when the scores were EVEN, and the second was a full blown dive. Ali never really beat Liston!

Earnie Shavers - Total bum, many analysts give this fight to Shavers.

And that's it!

The correct conclusion is that how pathetic of Muhammad Ali to lose to a guy as bad as Frazier or vice verse.

They were both LUCKY they had each other to boost their respective credibility.

Most subsequent eras boxers let alone the champs would **** both those clowns out of there no doubt!

This post makes my head hurt.

[LacedUp]

That's who this is. Okay, I wasn't sure before.

Yeah I sniffed that out after about his second post with his new account