Is Roy Jones in the top 20 all time great?

[New England]

Most definitely.

His wins include schooling prime James Toney and prime Bernard Hopkins.

wins over those two don't put you in the top 20 of all time.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

and that proves my point.

chavez and nelson are great wins. just like Hopkins and Toney are. greg haugen and roger mayweather are no better than reggie johnson or montell griffin. buddy mcgirt is no better than virgil hill. vasquez is not better than moving to heavyweight and beating ruiz or tarver.

Haugen and mayweather are better than johnson and griffin, not a huge difference, but hagen and mayweather are better, plus johnson was getting pretty old, whereas haugen and roger were prime,,, Buddy mcgirt was the champion and prime, virgil hill was a former champ who had already got outboxed by old hearns, and beaten up by michlewski a year before roy fought hill... Vasquez is much better than Ruiz, Tarver was a solid win but roy looked bad in it, and alot think tarver won it..

see this is the double standard I'm talking about. Jorge Paez is a quality win for Pernell Whitaker. But Eric Lucas is nothing. Mike McCallum is nothing.

LMAO,, Double standard when be making comparisons between fighters and acting like age and context means nothing...
Do you realize that Paez was prime, and much better than Eric Lucas,, and that Mccallum- roy was fighting an ancient 42 year old former jr mid champ at LHW,, that win is about the worst win ever,,, Do you think anthony mundine got a good win over shane mosely,, or Danny green must be awesome since he beat roy via ko1,,,
See you have to understand the context of the fights, and actually know what you are talking about before you make claims like mccallum was a great or even good win for roy....

[-PBP-]

and that proves my point.

chavez and nelson are great wins. just like Hopkins and Toney are. greg haugen and roger mayweather are no better than reggie johnson or montell griffin. buddy mcgirt is no better than virgil hill. vasquez is not better than moving to heavyweight and beating ruiz or tarver.

Chavez was the #1 pound for pound fighter in the world at the time (really 1a) and Nelson was 6th (off memory). Hopkins was a good win in hindsight that I give him full credit for but the rematch should have happened in the early 2000s. Toney was a great win and I acknowledge that. The best win on Roy's resume.

Buddy McGirt was a pound for pound ranked fighter, WBC welterweight champion and the #1 welterweight in the world win Pea fought him and was coming off 2 title defenses after beating Simon Brown. Virgil Hill is a great HOF fighter but was coming off of a loss to Michaelczewski who Roy never fought. Whitaker beat the #1 guy at LW, WW and JMW.

His heavyweight win is underrated but let's not act like he moved up and became THE heavyweight champion. Ruiz was the "right fight" at heavyweight and Roy made the most of it. But James Toney came right back and beat Ruiz even worse.

Resume is not only about "who" you beat. You have to consider "when" you beat them.

see this is the double standard I'm talking about. Jorge Paez is a quality win for Pernell Whitaker. But Eric Lucas is nothing. Mike McCallum is nothing.

Mike McCallum was 40 years old when Roy fought him bruh.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

wins over those two don't put you in the top 20 of all time.

Exactly,,, they are great wins, and proves roy was a great fighter,, just not top 20 ATG

[Big_L]

haugen, mayweather, johnson, griffin, etc. these are all the same level of fighters. if you want to talk about context, don't tell me that Vasquez is more impressive than going up to heavyweight and beating ruiz, while still giving up 30 pounds. it's not.

yall are nitpicking. very little seperates these guy's resumes.

[Daddy T]

skill wise ... definitely. Watching roy is like watching liquid gold.

I always felt he could have done more with his career though, especially considering those wasted years he had while his father was his manager/promoter.

[-PBP-]

haugen, mayweather, johnson, griffin, etc. these are all the same level of fighters. if you want to talk about context, don't tell me that Vasquez is more impressive than going up to heavyweight and beating ruiz, while still giving up 30 pounds. it's not.

yall are nitpicking. very little seperates these guy's resumes.

Who has Montell Griffin beaten outside of two robberies against James Toney? The 3 biggest "wins" of his career are all suspect. And I like Ice. I thought he was a very skilled fighter but he has not accomplished near what Greg Haugen and Roger Mayweather have. And Johnson wasn't prime when Roy fought him.

Its not nitpicking. Its using facts to show why one fighters wins are better than the others.

I think Roy Jones is top 30 but he isn't higher than Whitaker.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I don't agree.

Some people tend to overrate old-time boxers, and underrate the modern fighters.

Prime Toney is an outstanding win and it wasn't a close fight. Hopkins himself is an ATG.

Roy Jones is a top 20 ATG, and talent-wise he's top 5.

Nobody is gonna dispute if roy jones is ATG or not,, Talent wise he is rated very high, but if you really breakdown his resume compared to other ATGs his resume lacks top 20 achievements...
Roy has toney, hopkins, great wins, and then ruiz and tarver good wins,,
SRL has beaten duran, benetiz, hagler, hearns, ayubule, That is a top 20 type resume
Roy in terms of resume is somewhere in the top 50 but not top 20 IMO,, I think even floyd has a better resume and manny

haugen, mayweather, johnson, griffin, etc. these are all the same level of fighters. if you want to talk about context, don't tell me that Vasquez is more impressive than going up to heavyweight and beating ruiz, while still giving up 30 pounds. it's not.

yall are nitpicking. very little seperates these guy's resumes.

There is not a whole lot of differences, i grant you that, but pernell had wins over the #1 guys at lw, , welter, and 154... Roy didnt fight any top guys at 160,, one at 168, and 175 was a very weak division and he never beat the guy considered to be the best next to jones,, at heavy he fought a paper champ, and ruiz is barely a top 10 guy based on skills, Its not like roy went up and beat lennox lewis, now that would be an ATG win

[Daddy T]

Just look at the Toney fight ... would anybody else ... ever have done that to Toney ...

beat prime hopkins with a broken hand ...

impressive stuff

[Brandish]

Hopkins resume and career is far better then pernells. Pernell was done as a top fighter by 33 same with Ray Leonard and Roy who was do e by 34 so Bhop has claim to having a superior skills set and mentality to survive that long in top form!

People may nit like it but he is one if the three grandmasters of boxing in this era. His fighting style will be studied for years, same with Floyd's, and Roy's.

For this era the three grandmasters are:
1. Floyd may weather jr
2. Roy jones jr
3. Bernard Hopkins

Next level

4. Pernell Whitaker
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Evader Holyfield