Is Roy Jones in the top 20 all time great?

[robertzimmerman]

And even then lets not act like it was publicly demanded at the time roy fight collins, eubanks, benn or nunn because that wasnt the case

In retrospect sure, those wouldve been descent wins, but lets not act like those wins would've been greater than the top wins he already had or like they wouldve miraculously changed some of these posters mind on his career in this thread

Exactly!

Wins over Collins etc, wouldn't have changed their opinion.

[billeau2]

It's not debated. What me and BoxingGenius are asking, is whether or not Roy would have got credit for beating those guys, seeing as Sugar Adam Ali doesn't give him much credit for beating Ruiz etc.

If the Ruiz win didn't impress him, then how could a win over Collins have impressed him?

He's way too harsh on Roy.

The Ruiz win detracts from your argument frankly. Jawney was tailor made to get his ass handed to him by a smaller quicker guy who could avoid the dryhump shuffle. Roy was definitely smart....he did a Mayweather. Knew that Jawney could easily be outmanuveured.

But yeah....Roy beat the best and made it look easy because of his incredible athletic ability. I don't think any orthodox boxer without a super gear, or super punch would touch him head to head in his prime at his weight. Guys like Sugar Ray Robinson had that extra gear, and guys who could punch would get to him. Thats why Tarver did. Tarver refused to get backed up by his speed and got in his lucky punch....I know the cult of Roy will say that Roy was past it that fight....but I don't agree.

Jones was an incredible fighter but not in the top 20 imo. But I would give him an asterick for having incredible athletic ability....off the charts.

[billeau2]

Beat Toney twice actually

Toney was twice the fighter Jones was...but styles make fights and genetically all the boxing knowledge in the world, and Toney has quite a knowledge base....could not give Toney a way to overcome Roys pure physical advantages. Most of Roys later career was spent like Mayweather's: glorified sparring sessions. You don't enter the top 20 that way!

[robertzimmerman]

damn boy

Ha!

It's a lot better now that it's been edited.

Roy has a strong resume for his era.

Here's another question for the likes of Sugar Adam Ali.

Where are the likes of Jackson, Nunn, Liles, and Toney etc on Eubank's, Benn's and Collins' resumes?

Compare Roy's resume to someone like Calzaghe's and Dariusz M's, and then come back and say it's not strong.

[New England]

Ha!

It's a lot better now that it's been edited.

Roy has a strong resume for his era.

Here's another question for the likes of Sugar Adam Ali.

Where are the likes of Jackson, Nunn, Liles, and Toney etc on Eubank's, Benn's and Collins' resumes?

Compare Roy's resume to someone like Calzaghe's and Dariusz M's, and then come back and say it's not strong.

calzaghe and dariuz michaelzewski [who even cares if i spelled that right?] are not top 20 ATG, and that's what's important about our discussion.


roy jones has a strong resume. he fits in with lots of top 100 fighters. he doesn't fit in with the top 20.

jones gets a ton of extra credit for looking spectacular because of his athletic quality. it's easy to get caught up in his talent. that he is talented as any man doesn't change the fact that his resume isn't one of the 20 best of all time.

[robertzimmerman]

his so called skill is relative, if he was so skilled why did he always fight bums?
i though valero was mighty skilled too but that doesnt mean he is a legend or something

So called skill??

He didn't always fight bums.

You obviously haven't got a clue what you're trying to talk about.

[robertzimmerman]

Beat Toney twice actually

Quite right.

Griffin was a good fighter.

Roy knocked him out with a LEAD left uppercut!

Who the f**k knocks somebody out with a lead uppercut?

NOBODY!

Some of these guys on here are jokers.

A guy that's not particularly impressed by the Griffin win, wouldn't have given any credit to Roy had he beaten the likes of Steve Collins.

[robertzimmerman]

The Ruiz win detracts from your argument frankly. Jawney was tailor made to get his ass handed to him by a smaller quicker guy who could avoid the dryhump shuffle. Roy was definitely smart....he did a Mayweather. Knew that Jawney could easily be outmanuveured.

But yeah....Roy beat the best and made it look easy because of his incredible athletic ability. I don't think any orthodox boxer without a super gear, or super punch would touch him head to head in his prime at his weight. Guys like Sugar Ray Robinson had that extra gear, and guys who could punch would get to him. Thats why Tarver did. Tarver refused to get backed up by his speed and got in his lucky punch....I know the cult of Roy will say that Roy was past it that fight....but I don't agree.

Jones was an incredible fighter but not in the top 20 imo. But I would give him an asterick for having incredible athletic ability....off the charts.

I respect your opinion.

But I wouldn't say that any top 5 HW was tailor made for a 34 year old LHW, who'd had almost 50 fights.

Again the point I was making to Sugar Adam Ali, was that if the Ruiz win doesn't impress you, then a win over Steve Collins wouldn't have got you out of your chair.

Tarver caught Roy with a beautiful shot. Roy was in much better condition both mentally and physically for the rematch. He wasn't shot, but at 35, he was past his '168' peak.

I've no issue with anybody that doesn't have Roy in their top 20. It's all subjective, and it depends what your criteria is.

Who ranks higher between Lennox Lewis and Manny Pac?

Where do you even start?

That's why these debates are great fun.

[robertzimmerman]

calzaghe and dariuz michaelzewski [who even cares if i spelled that right?] are not top 20 ATG, and that's what's important about our discussion.


roy jones has a strong resume. he fits in with lots of top 100 fighters. he doesn't fit in with the top 20.

jones gets a ton of extra credit for looking spectacular because of his athletic quality. it's easy to get caught up in his talent. that he is talented as any man doesn't change the fact that his resume isn't one of the 20 best of all time.

I respect your opinion.

I was just pointing out that Roy has a strong resume for his era.

Every fighter has different set of circumstances surrounding them.

I love Ray Leonard and the rest of the Fab Four. But where would Ray rank, in a different era, had he not got the opportunities to fight Duran, Benitez, Hearns and Hagler?

Ray was lucky in a sense.

Roy never had those rivals. Toney was Roy's version of Hearns etc.

Ray deserves to be higher than Roy in my opinion. But I think assessing a fighters skill set should be more important than it appears to be, when ranking a fighter.

[billeau2]

I respect your opinion.

But I wouldn't say that any top 5 HW was tailor made for a 34 year old LHW, who'd had almost 50 fights.

Again the point I was making to Sugar Adam Ali, was that if the Ruiz win doesn't impress you, then a win over Steve Collins wouldn't have got you out of your chair.

Tarver caught Roy with a beautiful shot. Roy was in much better condition both mentally and physically for the rematch. He wasn't shot, but at 35 he was past his 168 best.

I've no issue with anybody that doesn't have Roy in their top 20. It's all subjective, and it depends what your criteria is.



Who ranks higher between Lennox Lewis and Manny Pac?

Where do you even start?

That's why these debates are great fun.

yeah these lists kill me! What you want to know about Ruiz though is that at the time he was considered a real failure. People were upset with his style, his manager, and it was thought he was symptomatic of a very weak heavyweight division. All the boxing pundits thought Ruiz was a strawberry....you know ripe for the picking?

I make it a habit to remember these things because people inevitably have elevated Ruiz since that time. Tarver was a lot bigger fish to fry I would say.