Andre Ward: “I think Manny Pacquiao has a great legacy, but we got to be honest about

[cjgrey]

He still can't carry Pac's jock strap. Lol

Funny thing is, he has a better record, and more money than Pacquiao, who is $68 million in the hole and now needs to beg his worst enemy to feed him some scraps.

[Bushbaby]

Pac was willing to fight him at 147, not a CW, at any point after he became welter champ. Or fight him at 150, as requested by Cotto of both Marg 1 year prior, and of Pac 6 months prior. But not 154, cause he'd previously said he's not going up that high. 8th division too much even for Pac

Team Pacman said they would fight Cotto at 148. regardless, how do you choose a fighter who's been fighting at a weight class above you and expect him to come down after you've already destroyed him at a catchweight. Team Pacman needs a weight advantage whether it's a catchweight of 71b drop.

[cjgrey]

Both clearly lost weight in a bad way. Per Dawson's trainer, there was some weight cutoff below which his chin turned into putty, and spent much of his camp sweating weight. Plus the infamous Miranda KO in sarring. Of course, he had a lot more weight to shed than Hoya, who fought at 150 1 fight prior and started at 130/135.

This is fair. But ignorant fans are not rabidly defending Ward beating Dawson as a great athletic achievement, and Ward did not become a superstar because of such a circus fight.

Pacquiao fans are rabid and ignorant. That is the problem.

[HeroBando]

If Usain Bolt is 23 lbs starved and dehydrated, and I beat him in the 100 meter dash, no it is not an athletic accomplishment. You ****ing non-athlete.

Manny has only moved up so many weight decisions because when he was 16, he was already boxing pro at 106 lbs. That's just because the Philippines didn't have a good amateur program and he needed money. If Tyson went pro at 16, he could have started at middleweight. The catch phrase "moved up 8 weight classes" sounds idiotic to anyone who has actually fought and know what BS the weigh in system is.

You don't risk having your head blown off if Bolt comes in healthy. You run 10 seconds, lose and that's that. Many people forecast a career ender for Pac. NOBODY predicted Oscar's career would end that night, much less on his stool.

Fighting at that level that young puts a lot of miles on those tires. Pac had won 3 titles and fought 1st ballot HOFs below Floyd's starting weight. No phony retirements, no vacations.

[djtmal]

[QUOTE=cjgrey;141Acquiunny thing is, he has a better record, and more money than Pacquiao, who is $68 million in the hole and now needs to beg his worst enemy to feed him some scraps.[/QUOTE]

I'd rather watch Manny Pac beg Floyd for a fight, than watch Andre Ward fight

[HeroBando]

This is fair. But ignorant fans are not rabidly defending Ward beating Dawson as a great athletic achievement, and Ward did not become a superstar because of such a circus fight.

Pacquiao fans are rabid and ignorant. That is the problem.

Nobody is saying it took an ATG performance for Pac to beat DLH. Everybody saw Oscar was a corpse, though few predicted it (unlike with Dawson) But it was a huge risk for Pac, again unlike Ward Dawson, so he reaped the rewards.

Floyd beating past prime DLH also launched him to stardom and wasn't a great athletic accomplishment, though it was a better past prime DLH

[bopbopbbe]

Manny has a better resume than mayweather even if you take out his fights after lightweight.

The fact is floyd hasnt fought a SINGLE hof fighter in his prime. In terms of legacy, manny dwarfes floyd. We all believe floyd has the ability to be an atg but he hasnt dared to be great. So anybody with a brain knows any claims of his being GOAT is complete bull****.

[cjgrey]

You don't risk having your head blown off if Bolt comes in healthy. You run 10 seconds, lose and that's that. Many people forecast a career ender for Pac. NOBODY predicted Oscar's career would end that night, much less on his stool.

Fighting at that level that young puts a lot of miles on those tires. Pac had won 3 titles and fought 1st ballot HOFs below Floyd's starting weight. No phony retirements, no vacations.

The first part of what you said is fair, however, the simple fact is Oscar did not come in healthy or bigger. He came in unhealthy and smaller, and if the athletic commissions weren't so corrupt, he never should have been medically cleared to fight. But of course, no one was going to cancel a bug money De La Hoya fight for medical reasons.

The second part, completely wrong. Floyd's boxing beginnings were as harsh if not harsher than Pacquiao's. His father forced him to start boxing from the age of 3, that's why his knuckles are so worn down and break so easily, so he can't throw with full power anymore. When Floyd was 14-16, he was fighting the top ADULT amateurs in the country, who often outweighed him by significant amounts in in-ring weight.

[HeroBando]

Team Pacman said they would fight Cotto at 148. regardless, how do you choose a fighter who's been fighting at a weight class above you and expect him to come down after you've already destroyed him at a catchweight. Team Pacman needs a weight advantage whether it's a catchweight of 71b drop.

Cotto said not below 150, if Marg gets it why not me? Is Pac afraid of me? Then Pac offers 150 and Cotto turns tail. That's 1 year after requesting to defend his 154 belt vs Marg at 150. he says the money and weight were not right, goes on to look way undersized and lose to Trout for $1m.

[cjgrey]

Floyd beating past prime DLH also launched him to stardom and wasn't a great athletic accomplishment, though it was a better past prime DLH

It was an exponentially better past prime DLH