Manny Pacquiao made JMM who hes is

[The Big Dunn]

I've always stated this, people vilified me on many forums for this belief

So called lock HOF dont get dropped go life and death with fighters like Mike Katsidis and Baby Bull Diaz. Elite counterpunchers dont get put on they ass nearly every fight from the same damn punch

JMM is nothing but a guy that had Manny's number, and has feasted on facing c level fighters looking average as **** in the process.



Not to mention the a million must see fights JMM ducked over the years

Is Marco antonio Barrera a c level fighter?

[sbbigmike]

He just became a smarter fighter overall.

I just think JMM is probably the best counter puncher in the game , maybe after Floyd. He doesn't do it like Rigo with blazing speed anf crazy cat like reflexes , it's different , I don't know how to describe it. I know you know what I mean. It's almost like a perfect symphony when he does it. It's all in one motion and very coordinated. And he has gotten better at it with age. It's like he has perfected his style it's flawless almost.

I'm not referring to stamina or power or speed.

How is JMM a elite counter puncher , please explain
concisely please

Dropped twice by a shot Barrera with a metal plate in his head
Dropped by Mayweather with a left hook
Dropped by diaz with a left hook
Dropped by Katsidis with a left hook
Dropped by Manny 5x with straight lefts

Elite counter punchers dont have issues with a left hand or simply a jab, a elite counterpunher wouldnt get dropped 5x in 4 matches facing the same damn fighter by the same damn punch.....

[sbbigmike]

Is Marco antonio Barrera a c level fighter?

When JMM fought him yes he damn sure was, and MAB still gave JMM the boxing lesson of his life and put him on his ass what should have been twice, the blown knockdown, and snuffing JMM after he knocked him down lol blew the fight for Barrera....

That fight alone should have shown people that JMM was never elite, and that he was never on the level of a prime Morales or Barrera

[sbbigmike]

yep marquez spanking manny 4 times was the best possible thing to happen to him!!

And this needs to stop also Im one of the biggest Manny haters post ODH, but any unbiased person should of had Manny winning the first 2. I admit JMM won no less than 10 rounds in the 3rd match though........

If I were Manny I would have told JMM to rematch Barrera corpse if he wanted a 3rd match, and expose the ***** in JMM to the world

[fabie]

The JMM v Manny series has made it clear that a supremely skilled boxer can always exploit heavy punchers who have speed and athletecism but lack are fundamentally lacking.

The Manny KO by JMM will always be what JMM is remembered for.

I see it humbly in a more fair light...meaning, JMM is Pacquiao's achilles heal. There's always subjectivity within objectivity. What do I mean by that? Even superior fighters are challenged by mediocre ones or lesser ones. Even Einstein have said [paraphrased]:

• Often, geniuses or superior minds are challenged by mediocre ones

Not saying that one is vastly superior than the other, it is just that both are made for each other's weaknesses. In the Philippines we call that "Contra Pelo" (counter heads)...in Chinese taoism it is called Yin and Yang (I am a tai chi teacher btw).

And so in boxing (or in life), there's no linear relationship of hierarchy. Oftentimes the highest are challenged by the lowly or vice versa. It is life.

Both have their pros and cons and you put it well in their general description of one a "technical fighter" vs "the athlete". And I do agree with you on this one. Just that it took 4 fights to get a relatively more convincing result and yet there's arguments in both sides.

Pacquiao was seemingly in the way of routing JMM until that very end...sort of similar with Donaire's left hook on Darch while the game is slipping away from his hands.

Ultimately you are right that people would remember the KO. Pacquiao sleeping and got caught with a picture perfect timing that ended him (perhaps his career). But for the purists among the pugilistic arts, the saga of JMM vs PAC cannot be defined by one fight and one fight only.

Both are seriously close. But JMM wanted to end it by not fighting Pac anymore...no more rematches. Rightly so in his side. Who wouldn't want to end in a high note?!

So, to me one isn't vastly superior but one thing we can all learn that cunning can overcome physical prowess. And that is why I consider boxing as an artform beyond just butting heads.

One can be a winner and yet a loser in one's mind's eye.

We can leave it as that, a beautiful saga to both warriors giving it all. One without the other, their careers would be incomplete.

[The Big Dunn]

I see it humbly in a more fair light...meaning, JMM is Pacquiao's achilles heal. There's always subjectivity within objectivity. What do I mean by that? Even superior fighters are challenged by mediocre ones or lesser ones. Even Einstein have said [paraphrased]:

• Often, geniuses or superior minds are challenged by mediocre ones

Not saying that one is vastly superior than the other, it is just that both are made for each other's weaknesses. In the Philippines we call that "Contra Pelo" (counter heads)...in Chinese taoism it is called Yin and Yang (I am a tai chi teacher btw).

And so in boxing (or in life), there's no linear relationship of hierarchy. Oftentimes the highest are challenged by the lowly or vice versa. It is life.

Both have their pros and cons and you put it well in their general description of one a "technical fighter" vs "the athlete". And I do agree with you on this one. Just that it took 4 fights to get a relatively more convincing result and yet there's arguments in both sides.

Pacquiao was seemingly in the way of routing JMM until that very end...sort of similar with Donaire's left hook on Darch while the game is slipping away from his hands.

Ultimately you are right that people would remember the KO. Pacquiao sleeping and got caught with a picture perfect timing that ended him (perhaps his career). But for the purists among the pugilistic arts, the saga of JMM vs PAC cannot be defined by one fight and one fight only.

Both are seriously close. But JMM wanted to end it by not fighting Pac anymore...no more rematches. Rightly so in his side. Who wouldn't want to end in a high note?!

So, to me one isn't vastly superior but one thing we can all learn that cunning can overcome physical prowess. And that is why I consider boxing as an artform beyond just butting heads.

One can be a winner and yet a loser in one's mind's eye.

We can leave it as that, a beautiful saga to both warriors giving it all. One without the other, their careers would be incomplete.

Manny was at least a 3-1 favorite in each fight, and never won clearly. At some point,we have to just accept the fact that JMM's skills nuetralized manny's speed and athletecism.

Yes, manny had stretches where he looked very good vs JMM. The last fight he had JMM in deep trouble. But he made the same mistakes he always makes pressing for a KO. JMM has the skills to take advanatge of those mistakes.

If manny had mastered his craft like JMM he'd blow JMM out the water.

[Rapid Counter]

Cant believe people are actually trying to discredit Marquez's great career. This site has really gone to s**t.

[sbbigmike]

Cant believe people are actually try to discredit Marquez's great career. This site has really gone to s**t.

Prove us otherwise Aside him beating Manny the once, and taking home a asswhipping and a arguable gift vs a shot metal plate in his head Barrera, the **** has JMM done and who has he beat????????

Think all the names he ducked along the years, and all the names floating around his divisions he roamed around he conveniently glossed over


If JMM wasnt mexican would he be seen as elite, would his trash resume be HOF/ATG worthy??????????

[fabie]

Manny was at least a 3-1 favorite in each fight, and never won clearly. At some point,we have to just accept the fact that JMM's skills nuetralized manny's speed and athletecism.

Yes, manny had stretches where he looked very good vs JMM. The last fight he had JMM in deep trouble. But he made the same mistakes he always makes pressing for a KO. JMM has the skills to take advanatge of those mistakes.

If manny had mastered his craft like JMM he'd blow JMM out the water.

Well put.

Both are fit to fight each other. And I can almost assume that if they fight 10 times (theoretically of course), the results will not deviate very far from what we've already seen. (Provided that both are of still the same health condition but obviously AGING and SLOWING DOWN mentally and physically is as much a part of the process and equation).

It's like Ali vs Frazier. It can go back and forth but of course that's entirely a new thread and entirely new dynamics.

I think that it's best that we leave this series of fights between at that. It is just sad to see fans from both sides would try to minimalize and invalidate the others' accomplishments.

Who's got more gas in the tank? Relatively I think Pacquiao can still fight more albeit less dangerous from his potent form just a couple of years ago, but he can still rock it. JMM on the other hand, seemed flat from his last fight with Bradley. But we cannot take away the credit from Bradley also for he put up a great performance.

[KING MEAT]

The JMM v Manny series has made it clear that a supremely skilled boxer can always exploit heavy punchers who have speed and athletecism but lack are fundamentally lacking.

The Manny KO by JMM will always be what JMM is remembered for.

godamn right it was. as he stated after the manny ko, "this is the greatest accomplishment of my career."

manny can say that after he destroyed de la hoya. and then some, beating ELITES. icons of their respective countries.

and he refuses to give manny redemption after he begged and cried for years for rematches.

bask in that glory, marquetta. go back to fighting tomato cans because that loss to bradley is more fckin embarassing than a 5th fight with pac.