Do Wlad's 3 defeats hamper his ATG status?

[Weltschmerz]

in realty fighters like ken norton are even greater then wlad (wlad would be lucky to make it in the top 15)

You mean based on resume, right?

[Godsfly]

You mean based on resume, right?

what other way do u judge greatness................

[LacedUp]

Straight back to trolling you are

I'm trolling for pointing out flaws in your arguments?

in realty fighters like ken norton are even greater then wlad (wlad would be lucky to make it in the top 15)

I can't agree with that at all. Wlad ranks higher than Norton by quite a range.

[Weltschmerz]

what other way do u judge greatness................

How do you ascertain that those past challengers were superior to the present ones... you can't. It's a failed argument that you nostalgists keep pursuing. There's no way to prove these things.

[-Kev-]

1) It is not the same, Pacquaio went on to fight guys like De la Hoya, Cotto, Margarito, Hatton, JMM, Barrera etc. Wlad went on to fight ... who? his best win is probably Haye or Peters. The level of competition is just not the same.

2) Wlad makes it weak?. Does he force feed Arreola and Solis (fighters that by the way, he did not fight)?. And I'd say the "top guys", no other World Champion in history had the benefit of a brother who would fight punchers, so that Wlad doesn't have to. What if Vitali wasn't there to beat Sanders and then retire?.

3) Yes, there are many other fighters with embarassing losses, but most of them are not ATG. What ATG has that kind of losses mixed with an unimpressive competition? (since you bring out Pacquaio I guess you are talking about ATG's in all weight classes, while Wladimir isn't even a top 10 HW ATG in my opinion).

There is something wrong with you mentioning De La Hoya and Margarito. The versions those fighters were, they were no better than guys like Mariusz Wach(Margarito), Samuel Peter(2010 version).

Hatton? I thought the Haye win was about as equal as the Hatton win.

I would also say Chris Byrd is about as good as Miguel Cotto as a fighter, and actually has the better wins: Vitali Klitschko(injury), David Tua, Evander Holyfield. You realize those are two HOF'ers right? Miguel Cotto has a win over one HOF'er and that is Shane Mosley. Wlad has Byrd on his resume twice. The first time he won by decision, despite how undersized Byrd was, that shows you how tough Byrd actually was.

[LacedUp]

How do you ascertain that those past challengers were superior to the present ones... you can't. It's a failed argument that you nostalgists keep pursuing. There's no way to prove these things.

Stop piggybacking off what others are saying and come with your own arguments. There are many things you can point out to argue that past/current fighters are better or worse than fighters from other eras. The eye test would be a good start. Level of competition, depth of the era, rankings, skill, resumes etc are others.

[FrankieBruno]

Yes it does

[FrankieBruno]

Wlad didn't turn into a great fighter, he learnt how to spoil, hold and lean his way out of and prevent problems, not something to be admired.

spot on.......

[Godsfly]

I'm trolling for pointing out flaws in your arguments?



I can't agree with that at all. Wlad ranks higher than Norton by quite a range.

ken Norton fought the greater competition. shavers, foreman, holmes, ali (yes ali was past prime) Jimmy Young, Quarry.


nortons best wins are young, quarry, Cobb (cobb who really beat buster douglas ko'd shavers. cobb had an all time chin and was one tough sob)

not to mention that norton gave A prime holmes hell. took him to hell and back...........when has wlad even fought someone like a prime holmes?

YES ken nortons (resume) is greater then wlads........i go by level competition. wlads competition is just too poor...........

[FrankieBruno]

Also Vitali>Wlad

Vitali has a better resume and if they had ever fought Vitali would have knocked him out