Wlad surpasses Holmes...

[GoldenGloveLove]

If you believe Tyson broke the record for youngest HW champ, you've got to say Wlad passed up Holmes for this one thing. I think it's like a lot of sports. Loads of things have asterisks. You can't not count all Wlad's IBF reign until the Ring title and you can't forget that there was more than one title either. Like Babe Ruth and Roger Maris. The sport changed, and the records don't all mean the same thing.

Everything cuts both ways. On one hand being undisputed completely is way more difficult if you don't win it in one fight, there's two more regarded world titles now than when Holmes started and nobody discounts Holmes reign before he became "lineal champion" and nobody discounts him for vacating for a title that wasn't regarded by everybody at the time and nobody discounts him for becoming "lineal champion" off of a walking corpse that shouldn't have been allowed to fight and couldn't even work a speed bag. There's knocks on everybody. Wlad's had a great milestone it just has an asterisk like a lot of other sports records.

It doesn't mean anyone mentioning it is saying it means Wlad's greater than Holmes so why everyone's being ****** defensive about it I don't know. It just means it's a great accomplishment that should be recognized. And it is.

[Daddy T]

If you believe Tyson broke the record for youngest HW champ, you've got to say Wlad passed up Holmes for this one thing. I think it's like a lot of sports. Loads of things have asterisks. You can't not count all Wlad's IBF reign until the Ring title and you can't forget that there was more than one title either. Like Babe Ruth and Roger Maris. The sport changed, and the records don't all mean the same thing.

Everything cuts both ways. On one hand being undisputed completely is way more difficult if you don't win it in one fight, there's two more regarded world titles now than when Holmes started and nobody discounts Holmes reign before he became "lineal champion" and nobody discounts him for vacating for a title that wasn't regarded by everybody at the time and nobody discounts him for becoming "lineal champion" off of a walking corpse that shouldn't have been allowed to fight and couldn't even work a speed bag. There's knocks on everybody. Wlad's had a great milestone it just has an asterisk like a lot of other sports records.

It doesn't mean anyone mentioning it is saying it means Wlad's greater than Holmes so why everyone's being ****** defensive about it I don't know. It just means it's a great accomplishment that should be recognized. And it is.

Spot on - good post

[Szef]

If you believe Tyson broke the record for youngest HW champ, you've got to say Wlad passed up Holmes for this one thing. I think it's like a lot of sports. Loads of things have asterisks. You can't not count all Wlad's IBF reign until the Ring title and you can't forget that there was more than one title either. Like Babe Ruth and Roger Maris. The sport changed, and the records don't all mean the same thing.

Everything cuts both ways. On one hand being undisputed completely is way more difficult if you don't win it in one fight, there's two more regarded world titles now than when Holmes started and nobody discounts Holmes reign before he became "lineal champion" and nobody discounts him for vacating for a title that wasn't regarded by everybody at the time and nobody discounts him for becoming "lineal champion" off of a walking corpse that shouldn't have been allowed to fight and couldn't even work a speed bag. There's knocks on everybody. Wlad's had a great milestone it just has an asterisk like a lot of other sports records.

It doesn't mean anyone mentioning it is saying it means Wlad's greater than Holmes so why everyone's being ****** defensive about it I don't know. It just means it's a great accomplishment that should be recognized. And it is.

Green K

[Razor Ramon]

You have already shifted the goal posts for Holmes reign. He wasn't undisputed and never unified with the other champion, but his reign counts because he beat Ali and Ken Norton who'd been awarded the WBC belt and never defended it, and that's because everyone "knew" he was the best of the champions.

Seriously, after Wlad smashed Chris Byrd and all the other championships switched hands in 2006, who could anyone honestly say was better than him at that point, or has been since? Everyone's "known" he was the best heavyweight fighter since 2006 and in a confusing sport like boxing that's about as good an indicator of who the real champion is.

[El Angel]

LacedUp and Dirk are constantly going at it nowadays

[LacedUp]

LacedUp and Dirk are constantly going at it nowadays

Just banter.

I like Dirk.

[DreamFighter]

Just admit it, you'll never respect him. Even if he fought his brother and beat him, you'd come back with some pathetic excuse.

hes specifically saying that he wants to see him fight number 2 to get respect. Yet you've just claimed he means the exact opposite of what he wrote - that he wouldn't respect Klit for fighting Klit.

You should read what other write and not what you imagine they do.

[yoz]

hes specifically saying that he wants to see him fight number 2 to get respect. Yet you've just claimed he means the exact opposite of what he wrote - that he wouldn't respect Klit for fighting Klit.

You should read what other write and not what you imagine they do.

He trashes the K-Bros in every HW thread.

He said he'd like to see Wladimir fight the 'number 2' in the division, which is Vitali. That'll never happen, and even if it did and Wladimir won, that moron would come back with some limp excuse [Vitali is shot/Wladimir doesn't fight prime HWs et al]. If you take Vitali out of the equation, Wladimir has fought David Haye who was ranked number 3, and will be fighting Povetkin next, who is a guy that has been ranked in the top 5 for some years now.

He's still bruised from David Haye's pathetic showing.

[LacedUp]

You have already shifted the goal posts for Holmes reign. He wasn't undisputed and never unified with the other champion, but his reign counts because he beat Ali and Ken Norton who'd been awarded the WBC belt and never defended it, and that's because everyone "knew" he was the best of the champions.

Seriously, after Wlad smashed Chris Byrd and all the other championships switched hands in 2006, who could anyone honestly say was better than him at that point, or has been since? Everyone's "known" he was the best heavyweight fighter since 2006 and in a confusing sport like boxing that's about as good an indicator of who the real champion is.

This is what I wrote:

But at the same time, Wlad wasn't considered the champ before 2009, maybe even 2011, so how can you justify putting him ahead of Holmes, who was undisputed for 5 years?

I only took Holmes reign from after he beat Ali and gained the ring title as well, I didn't count his first 2-3 years as champion. So I don't see how I moved the post?

Admittedly, he wasn't "undisputed" by books, but he was the champion. Everybody knew that. The same cannot be said for Wlad.

[DreamFighter]

If Wlad dominates for the next 4 years..... he will surpass Lewis and based on sheer longevity he will be a top 3 ATG HW.

There is no way in Hell he's going to dominate until he's 42 ... that is a pipe dream though.. He's already slowing down and the only reason it's not that obvious is because the quality of opponents he fought over the last 4 fights has been utterly horrendous. But he was clearly being tagged by the slow plodding Pinata and Wach had him at one point which if it had happened 20 seconds earlier... who knows.

of course he can dominate, all he needs to do is keep fighting cancer patients and failed sparring partners for the next 4 years and ignore any real challengers.