Comments Thread For: No Real Controversy in Dereck Chisora’s Knockout Win

[MarcianoFan]

If he said 10 the fight would still be over, the fight ends on 10. He signaled 10 with a wave instead of saying it. The issue is with the speed of the count.

Except that Scott was up by 10. He was up before the wave, too, but no ref wants to get caught with his hands in the air. The wave is a signal that the fight ends, it's not the end of the fight. Otherwise, you'll have to tell me a little more specifically. Is it over when the ref's arm first starts upward? Is it over when it reaches its apex?

If he'd have said 10 even as quickly as he waved, he'd have been in a lot better position to recognize that the fight wasn't properly over than he put himself in by waving first and asking questions later.

The quick count is one issue. The fact that, by waving in place of the 10-count, he made himself less able to react to Scott's being on his feet is another.

[Russian Crushin]

There's no rules on how fast a ref should count. The issue is how fast he got to 10 not how he signaled it.

But there is a rule the the ref must audibly (by mouth) and visibly (by showing of fingers) count to 10. You only follow rules when it applies to your point but ignore the rules that makes your entire argument crumble

He never got to 10, thats the problem. He ever signaled 10 either. The wave was not a 10 because there was no time from the 9 to the 10.

[Jam Jars]

But there is a rule the the ref must audibly (by mouth) and visibly (by showing of fingers) count to 10. You only follow rules when it applies to your point but ignore the rules that makes your entire argument crumble

He never got to 10, thats the problem. He ever signaled 10 either. The wave was not a 10 because there was no time from the 9 to the 10.

What does it matter if the fighter hears 10 or not? If he hears it it's over anyway. He had time to wave but no time to say 10? LOL

Again the issue is with the speed from 9>10/wave not how he signaled the count.

[MarcianoFan]

What does it matter if the fighter hears 10 or not? If he hears it it's over anyway. He had time to wave but no time to say 10? LOL

Again the issue is with the speed from 9>10/wave not how he signaled the count.

I don't know who made you the issue czar here, but the overarching issue is that the ref screwed up and ended the fight before he reached a proper count of 10.

Subissue 1 is whether he reached his chosen version of 10 too quickly (he did).

Subissue 2 is that Scott beat even his quick count (he did).

Subissue 3 is why he failed to recognize that Scott was up before 10 by any definition. He failed to recognize this manifestly because he made the decision at 9 and signaled it (generously) at 10, when Scott was up. That's why the signal should be delayed a bit from the actual count. Does this not make sense to you?

[F!x]

If Dereck Chisora had risen at the count of 9, would the ref have waved it off?

British refs are the worst in the world, and I'm English.

Possibly - if you remember the Haye vs Chisora fight, Chisora got up after the second knockdown before the 10 count was over but the ref waved the fight off anyway. It does happen all the time in boxing and has happened to Chisora himself in the only fight he was ever knocked down.

[Russian Crushin]

What does it matter if the fighter hears 10 or not? If he hears it it's over anyway. He had time to wave but no time to say 10? LOL

Again the issue is with the speed from 9>10/wave not how he signaled the count.

Because he would be up before 10, so he wouldnt hear 10. THe speed of the wave from the 9 count was how long it took for the reflex from the count of 9 to the physical wave.

Yes there's a big problem if the wave came much faster then the 10 would. Another reason why the wave does not count as 10 and they are suppose to say 10 if they count him out. The wave did not signal the 10. The fight was over when he said 9

[MarcianoFan]

Possibly - if you remember the Haye vs Chisora fight, Chisora got up after the second knockdown before the 10 count was over but the ref waved the fight off anyway. It does happen all the time in boxing and has happened to Chisora himself in the only fight he was ever knocked down.

To the best of my memory as to that fight, it was waved off because he was still wobbly, not because he got a short count. That's a whole different matter.

[Russian Crushin]

Possibly - if you remember the Haye vs Chisora fight, Chisora got up after the second knockdown before the 10 count was over but the ref waved the fight off anyway. It does happen all the time in boxing and has happened to Chisora himself in the only fight he was ever knocked down.

The Ref wave that fight off on the grounds that he didnt believe he could continue. It was a TKO, he didnt count him out. Completely different scenerio

[F!x]

To the best of my memory as to that fight, it was waved off because he was still wobbly, not because he got a short count. That's a whole different matter.

It wasn't really a short count - it was exactly 10 seconds. Count the time when Scott's knee hits the canvas to the time that he started to make the motion to get up, its 10 seconds exactly.

[MarcianoFan]

It wasn't really a short count - it was exactly 10 seconds. Count the time when Scott's knee hits the canvas to the time that he started to make the motion to get up, its 10 seconds exactly.

I already used a stopwatch on it, and you're right. But what if the ref had picked up the count 3 seconds late and waved it off at 7? That's not remotely fair. I didn't mean a short count in the sense that it wasn't 10 seconds...I mean that the count itself was truncated. These guys are expected to milk the count if they need to, and you can't signal 9 when you mean 10 anymore than 7. I imagine most refs don't have a good enough internal clock to nail it at exactly 10 seconds every time, but they can't give the first 9 at a certain pace and then cut that in half for the last second.

Buster Douglas probably got a long count against Tyson, but a downed fighter is entitled to rely on an authoritative and consistent count from the ref, even if it's a little slow or a little fast. Edwards gave an authoritative and consistent (if slightly slow) 9 count, and then decided to skip to a stoppage without finishing it. He wasn't wobbly like Chisora was, so it's not an apt comparison. As Russian Crushin pointed out, one was a TKO (not ready to continue while on his feet after the mandatory 8), while the other was a bogus knockout (which is supposed to require that a count of 10 be reached with the fighter down).