Comments Thread For: No Real Controversy in Dereck Chisora’s Knockout Win

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  • Russian Crushin
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    #101
    Originally posted by Own3d
    9>wave
    9>10

    Both signal the end of the fight how would he have gained anything from the ref saying 10?
    Wheres the 1 second in between the 9 and the wave?

    No both do not end the fight, the count of 10 ends the fight. If he did it right, scott would have been up. Its pretty clear in the rule book, ''10 and wave".

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    • Jam Jars
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      #102
      Originally posted by Russian Crushin
      "The rule is "9 and out"
      Answer the question what does he gain from the ref saying 10 instead of waving?

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      • MarcianoFan
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        #103
        Originally posted by ShoulderRoll
        I believe Scott was ahead on the official scorecards, wasn't he?

        Here's how some of the press scores looked.




        Kasim - (UKFighthype) : 48-47 Scott

        Fight Ghost : 49-46 Scott

        Alex Morris - (************) : 48-47 Scott

        Adam Abramowitz - (SNBoxing) : 48-47 Scott

        Tommy Allan - (************) : 48-47 Scott

        Wolfgang Schiffbauer - (Sturm-Boxpromotion) : 48-47 Scott

        Danny Flexen - (Boxing News) : 48-47 Scott

        BoxingOpinions : 48-47 Scott

        ATR Boxing Tipster : 49-47 Scott

        Scott Christ - (Badlefthook) : 48-47 Scott

        Phil D Jay - (***************) : 49-46 Scott

        Daniel Vano - (***************) : 48-47 Scott

        Victor M Salazar - (Thaboxingvoice) : 48-47 Scott

        FightersRated : 49-48 Scott

        John Evans - (Livefight) : 48-47 Scott

        Beau Denison - (SportsPageMagazine) : 48-47 Scott

        Andy Paterson - (************) : 48-47 Scott

        Boxbet : 49-46 Scott

        Corey Quincy - (BLBoxing) : **48-47 Chisora**

        Lyle Fitzsimmons - (Boxingscene) : 48-47 Scott

        Darren Velasco - (FightDomain) : 48-47 Scott

        Ryan Bivins - (SweetBoxing) : *48-48 DRAW*
        I don't know if BoxNation showed the official cards (or if they did, perhaps they did it after the download I got ended). But I think having Scott ahead, while reasonable, might be a result of giving him too much credit for missed jabs. Chisora was the aggressor and was landing the majority of the clean punches (mostly to the body) as I saw it. Even if Scott were ahead after 5, it would be a stretch to still have him ahead after the partial 10-8 6th, which would be scored in such a scenario.

        And look guys. There's really no defending the stoppage. Russian Crushin is absolutely right.

        Let's take it in sequence.
        Ref says "9." He's been counting at a certain rhythm and pace which ought to inform Scott as to his allotted time.

        Well before another second had elapsed (and even before the ref started waving), Scott was off the canvas to the point that his feet were the only things touching.

        So between the points where Scott's knee/glove left the canvas and the time the ref started waving and/or reached 10 (regardless of whichever should have or did come first), the ref should have decided if- being no longer down- Scott was in a position to continue.

        Nobody here has made a serious case that Scott was too badly hurt to continue. Your arguments, to the extent they exist, are based on the mistaken notion that a fight that's not seriously hurt can be viewed as being unable to continue due to his physical posture.

        Scott was arguably leaning over when the proper 10 was (or would have been) reached. But leaning over does not equal unprepared to continue. Being in a two-point stance with satisfactory equilibrium, awareness, and legs means you're prepared to continue.

        The 10+wave or wave at 10 discussion is pretty irrelevant. The simple truth is that Scott was fully qualified to continue at 10, and indeed at the point of the wave as it actually occurred. The referee had made a decision to stop the fight at or before the moment he hit 9 which he was not prepared to reverse, and which was based on- if any- incorrect criteria. That is wrong in any country.

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        • Russian Crushin
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          #104
          Originally posted by Own3d
          Answer the question what does he gain from the ref saying 10 instead of waving?
          I answered it. So is the BBBC still using the 9 and out rule?

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          • Jam Jars
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            #105
            Originally posted by Russian Crushin
            Wheres the 1 second in between the 9 and the wave?

            No both do not end the fight, the count of 10 ends the fight. If he did it right, scott would have been up. Its pretty clear in the rule book, ''10 and wave".
            The 10 in the rulebook ends the fight, not the wave. He'd have gained noting if the ref said 10 instead of waving after 9.

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            • Jam Jars
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              #106
              Originally posted by Russian Crushin
              I answered it. So is the BBBC still using the 9 and out rule?
              They all do. 9>10 = over, 9>wave = over.

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              • Russian Crushin
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                #107
                Originally posted by Own3d
                The 10 in the rulebook ends the fight, not the wave. He'd have gained noting if the ref said 10 instead of waving after 9.
                Wait i thought the wave ends it. So now its the 10

                So why didnt he say 10 in the scott fight but said 10 in the pulev fight? It doesnt make sense at all. He would have been up, thats a lot to gain. He had absolutely no time from 9 to the wave, none at all, which is why he was counted out at 9. THe ref clearly stop it after 9. If he did when he did in the pulev fight he would have been up

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                • MarcianoFan
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                  #108
                  Originally posted by Own3d
                  Answer the question what does he gain from the ref saying 10 instead of waving?
                  I'll bite. It gives him a moment to reflect. Waving at 10 means you've made the decision that the fight's over at least a split-second before 10, which means the real time a downed fighter has been allowed to rise is somewhere between 9 and 10, which is wrong. If you're waving on the beat of 10, you can get caught in an awkward position wherein you are raising your arms to wave a split second after the guy has risen. The proper thing to do at that point would be to change your mind awkwardly and get the fight back in motion if the guy is fit to continue. Why not say 10 first and avoid painting yourself into a corner?

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                  • Russian Crushin
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                    #109
                    Originally posted by Own3d
                    They all do. 9>10 = over, 9>wave = over.
                    The answer is no, they don't

                    It amazing how understanding rules is so hard when you're nuthugging

                    Count to 10>wave is over. Thats the rule in the book

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                    • ShoulderRoll
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                      #110
                      Originally posted by MarcianoFan
                      I don't know if BoxNation showed the official cards (or if they did, perhaps they did it after the download I got ended). But I think having Scott ahead, while reasonable, might be a result of giving him too much credit for missed jabs.
                      The vast majority of press scorers had Malik Scott ahead so they must all have been duped by missed jabs.

                      In any case I only bring it up because you suggested that they should have gone to a technical decision. If they had done that it looks like Scott was ahead on most cards and he would have won.

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