Sergio needs to retire

[New England]

here are gifs of the two knockdowns...can't believe the second knockdown wasn't called....

it should have been called a knockdown, but the ref may have given him the benefit of the doubt in a situation in which he didn't have a good view. the canvas was literally being rained on, and it's sergio martinez in argentina, after all. the ref didn't want to get bodied by the fans

[junior gong]

He looked pretty bad imo. Granted Murray didn't open up too much and probably would have gotten put down if he did but he countered well when he did open up.

Martinez looked slow and didn't have the same movement that he normally does. The thing that got me was he didn't show the versatility in punching combinations that he normally does. He kept the 1-2 going and when he couldn't get through Murray's guard, he never side stepped and tried to throw hooks to the body or anything. When he opened up, he easily moved Murray around the ring but when he had momentum going, he took his foot off the gas. He just wasn't himself, looked like a c rated Martinez to me.

C'mon Mathed, you really should be giving Murray some credit here.

[junior gong]

def not just an off night

he's a fraction of what he used to be. he can barely beat the martin murray's of the world. he got dropped twice.

?? Murray is a very good fighter. He would give anyone at MW, Golovkin included, a very hard night.

[New England]

His reflexes just weren't sharp and in a 38 year old athlete that's a major warning sign. He was standing in front of Murray with his hands down, but instead of slipping shots and landing counters he was getting hit flush and rarely getting his counters through Murray's guard.

It wasn't terrible, it was a close fight, but you get the impression Sergio is on the slide now.

i've felt that he was diminishing physically for some time now. last night was the first time when he'd slipped enough to almost lose to somebody he'd body in his prime.



prime martinez against a much better fighter:

[New England]

?? Murray is a very good fighter. He would give anyone at MW, Golovkin included, a very hard night.

he's in the top 10, but he's not a fighter who would trouble martinez in '09. he's nobody to write home about. in his prime, sergio was somebody to write home about. last night they were on basically even terms. sergio's deterioration is the cheif reason for that, not any skills or talent that murray has.


and i can't see him troubling golovkin much at all. he doesn't move his head enough.

[mathed]

C'mon Mathed, you really should be giving Murray some credit here.

Don't get me wrong, I think Murray did a great job and like Macklin and Barker, he is a much, much, better fighter than most give him credit for. People only call these guys "bums" to try and discredit Martinez. These guys are undefeated or nearly undefeated and go on to whoop up on other guys after they fight Martinez because they are very good.

I think the rain, the limelight pressure, Martinez' age and potential knee issues played a part as well. Murray had a terrific gameplan with the guard and right hand counter punching.

That being said, the effort on Martinez' part was far less than what he had displayed in other fights....there were times when he would let go 4 punches and Murray would back up and Sergio would just stand there, not throwing any punches. Sergio could have made this fight easier had he just unleashed 80-100 punches a round like he normally does. I forget what he was averaging last night but it had to be at least 30-40% less than what he normally does. That is something on Martinez' part, nothing Murray did to him.

I still think that Barker, Murray, and Macklin all are top 7 in the division.

[junior gong]

he's in the top 10, but he's not a fighter who would trouble martinez in '09. he's nobody to write home about. in his prime, sergio was somebody to write home about. last night they were on basically even terms. sergio's deterioration is the cheif reason for that, not any skills or talent that murray has.


and i can't see him troubling golovkin much at all. he doesn't move his head enough.

I think you are underrating Murray a bit here and overrating Golovkin a bit too. Dont get me wrong, I like GGG, but if I had a criticism of him it would be that he is very hitable. I dont see GGG stopping Murray, put it like that.

[Bermuda]

it should have been called a knockdown, but the ref may have given him the benefit of the doubt in a situation in which he didn't have a good view. the canvas was literally being rained on, and it's sergio martinez in argentina, after all. the ref didn't want to get bodied by the fans

lol........

[mathed]

he's in the top 10, but he's not a fighter who would trouble martinez in '09. he's nobody to write home about. in his prime, sergio was somebody to write home about. last night they were on basically even terms. sergio's deterioration is the cheif reason for that, not any skills or talent that murray has.


and i can't see him troubling golovkin much at all. he doesn't move his head enough.

Well, we'll see how 3G fares against Macklin shortly. If he struggles or Macklin wins, fair credit should be given. This will be a proper test to see what each guy is made of.

[junior gong]

Don't get me wrong, I think Murray did a great job and like Macklin and Barker, he is a much, much, better fighter than most give him credit for. People only call these guys "bums" to try and discredit Martinez. These guys are undefeated or nearly undefeated and go on to whoop up on other guys after they fight Martinez because they are very good.

I think the rain, the limelight pressure, Martinez' age and potential knee issues played a part as well. Murray had a terrific gameplan with the guard and right hand counter punching.

That being said, the effort on Martinez' part was far less than what he had displayed in other fights....there were times when he would let go 4 punches and Murray would back up and Sergio would just stand there, not throwing any punches. Sergio could have made this fight easier had he just unleashed 80-100 punches a round like he normally does. I forget what he was averaging last night but it had to be at least 30-40% less than what he normally does. That is something on Martinez' part, nothing Murray did to him.

I still think that Barker, Murray, and Macklin all are top 7 in the division.

I can respect that...I think the pressure was something completely new to him as he is used to fighting away from home and my gut feeling is that was more a factor. I cant quite agree with your point about his workrate, though. I think it was Murray's high guard and the weight and accuracy of his counters that played a role in negating that.

It will be very interesting to see where both these guys go from here.