watched the Rigo Donaire fight again..

[techliam]

Yes.

If one guys objective is to make the round a round where 0 punches are thrown, and the other guys objective is to throw 100 punch,

and 0 punches are thrown...

Who won the round?

That what ring generalship is about, who is in control of the fight and who is dictating when and where battle takes place.

Rigo was obviously the one dictating the pace, when to engage, and when not to. Therefore he was winning the rounds.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works. I can see what you were trying to argue, but the way you argued it is a bit weird. If 0 punches are thrown, I would score the round 9-9 (you could even argue, extremely, that the round isn't deserving of a professional score), though honestly, the ref could simply stop the fight for that, though this is getting off topic now.

You can't second guess a gameplan, as fighters often have plan B's and it really isn't up to a judge to second guess what they are attempting to do in the long run. Ring generalship is often viewed upon as the fighter preventing the other from utilising his gameplan, more so than the fight being finely paced for him. It could have been Donaire's plan to throw less punches, noone but Donaire and perhaps his trainer can clarify that. Ring generalship should never be used on it's own as a scoring rule. There is a big split between judges when it comes to lower output throwers - some score in favour of low output but clean shots, some score in favour of the guy trying to press the action - you can see how subjective 'ring generalship' actually is.

Just my thoughts, as i've been judging and refereeing fights for a while now.

[dan_cov]

I happen to have the fight here in HD.

Don't get me wrong, the rounds donaire won, rigo gave away from inactivity.
3rd 4th 7th 8th were all Donaire's. 10th, donaire. 113


Round 3: 10 secs in & a nice right hook lead from Rigo. Donaire sneaks a bodyshot in. Jab to the body by Donaire, Rigo responds with a straight left that possibly just fell short. Rigo with a nice jab to the body & again. Showing some beautiful defensive skills. Left uppercut inside by Rigo & a left hook as Donaire pulls out. Bodyshot by Rigo followed up with a straight left up top. Jab & a left up top, Donaire gets in a bodyshot. Short right hook from Rigo as he rolls under & out making Donaire look ridiculous. Left & a right from Donaire both bouncing off the top of Rigos head, good straight right hand - Rigo shakes his head & throws a venomous left uppercut to the body. Hard straight left from Rigo.
10-9 Rigondeaux

Round 4: Donaire slips a straight left after being made to miss & eats a left uppercut. Jab to the body from Rigo. Right hand to the body by Donaire (hard to see if it was blocked or not) misses a left hook by a country mile. Donaire misses another left hook & Rigo comes over the top of it with a right. Jab to the body by Rigo, Donaire misses a left hook - jabs off of it which falls short & eats a jab himself. Uppercut to the body from Rigo. Distracts Donaire with the right hand & rips the body. Another bodyshot which apparently strayed low. Eye-catching counter left hook from Donaire & gets plastered with a straight left as he rushes in. Left to the body from El Chacal & another & a left upstairs. Big straight left to finish the round.
10-9 Rigondeaux

7th upon watching previously I gave to Donaire (only round but the 10th), we'll give him the benefit of the doubt here.

Round 8: Give up scoring same old song & dance. I think Donaire landed one punch. So he won this for hitting thin air?

Everything Donaire throws is just missing or half-blocked. Everything Rigo is throwing is crisp & clear and that is why he won the rounds/fight.

[Jloro]

Carefully paying attention and blocking out the idiotic commentary. Anyone saying Donaire got "whitewashed" is absurd. This Rigo is way too inactive to have pitched a shutout. Hbo's commentary was disgraceful. Ignoring many of donaire's punches and touting the myth of compubox. Are they counting rigo's feints in compubox or what?

Don't get me wrong, the rounds donaire won, rigo gave away from inactivity.
3rd 4th 7th 8th were all Donaire's. 10th, donaire. 113

1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th, 9th, 11th, and 12th are ones I could justify for rigo, sometimes only by one good left hand or right hook, so I could easily see one of those rounds going to Donaire on a more biased persons card, resulting in a draw. 114 (cuz of the kd) The guy is just too inactive to win rounds in a shutout, I don't know what HBO is smoking but I want some.

114-113 Rigo

Btw compibox is effin broken at this point. Wow. You gonna tell me rigo landed 10 punches in the 8th? And that round they said Donaire landed only 3? Also wrong. Wtf is really going on.

Take your hbo glasses off please

I agree HBO did a lot of Rigo worshipping but I'm not so sure of the score.

[KidneyPunch]

Carefully paying attention and blocking out the idiotic commentary. Anyone saying Donaire got "whitewashed" is absurd. This Rigo is way too inactive to have pitched a shutout. Hbo's commentary was disgraceful. Ignoring many of donaire's punches and touting the myth of compubox. Are they counting rigo's feints in compubox or what?

Don't get me wrong, the rounds donaire won, rigo gave away from inactivity.
3rd 4th 7th 8th were all Donaire's. 10th, donaire. 113

1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th, 9th, 11th, and 12th are ones I could justify for rigo, sometimes only by one good left hand or right hook, so I could easily see one of those rounds going to Donaire on a more biased persons card, resulting in a draw. 114 (cuz of the kd) The guy is just too inactive to win rounds in a shutout, I don't know what HBO is smoking but I want some.

114-113 Rigo

Btw compibox is effin broken at this point. Wow. You gonna tell me rigo landed 10 punches in the 8th? And that round they said Donaire landed only 3? Also wrong. Wtf is really going on.

Take your hbo glasses off please

I didn't see it that way.

Rigo landed more clean shots per round than Donaire.

There are other ways to judge a fight other than punches landed.

Ring generalship comes to mind as Rigo gave a master class on how to use the ring to make an opponent miss, stumble and look completely lost.

Not every match is going to have a high punch output. As a boxing fan, you really need to realize this.

This is why many here wrote that Rigo-Donaire was a purist's dream: It was a chess match where both had power and both were counterpunchers. Neither wanted to over-commit and preferred to pick and choose their shots.

Rigo chose to box. Donaire chose to fight. The fighter was taken out of his game and could not execute. The boxer actually boxed beautifully, and outscored the fighter in every round except the tenth.

Rigo didn't dominate every round, but as I wrote earlier there were only 2 rounds that anyone could honestly give to Donaire. Donaire, while always in the fight, simply kept throwing home run shots that never found a home.

I believe that Donaire never thought he could outbox Rigo, so he hoped to land something big early. He completely abandoned his jab and was headhunting the entire night.

Proof of that was in the tenth. The only way Nonito was able to land a heavy shot was to first grapple, then push off and only then was he able to land a big shot that earned him the knockdown.

Rigo hurt Donaire a few times in that fight. I don't think Donaire ever really hurt Rigo, even in the tenth. Rigo immediately stood up and began taking over the round.

This was the kind of match that an MMA fan hates and can't fathom. The sweet science is not kickboxing, and that's the reason that anyone would have anything negative to say about such a masterful performance.

[!! Shawn]

Unfortunately, that's not how it works. I can see what you were trying to argue, but the way you argued it is a bit weird. If 0 punches are thrown, I would score the round 9-9 (you could even argue, extremely, that the round isn't deserving of a professional score), though honestly, the ref could simply stop the fight for that, though this is getting off topic now.

You can't second guess a gameplan, as fighters often have plan B's and it really isn't up to a judge to second guess what they are attempting to do in the long run. Ring generalship is often viewed upon as the fighter preventing the other from utilising his gameplan, more so than the fight being finely paced for him. It could have been Donaire's plan to throw less punches, noone but Donaire and perhaps his trainer can clarify that. Ring generalship should never be used on it's own as a scoring rule. There is a big split between judges when it comes to lower output throwers - some score in favour of low output but clean shots, some score in favour of the guy trying to press the action - you can see how subjective 'ring generalship' actually is.

Just my thoughts, as i've been judging and refereeing fights for a while now.

That worries me...

A fighter gameplan is obvious by what they TRY to do, and what we know about fighters.

The way he took again Nonitos hook was beautiful.

[!! Shawn]

I didn't see it that way.

Rigo landed more clean shots per round than Donaire.

There are other ways to judge a fight other than punches landed.

Ring generalship comes to mind as Rigo gave a master class on how to use the ring to make an opponent miss, stumble and look completely lost.

Not every match is going to have a high punch output. As a boxing fan, you really need to realize this.

This is why many here wrote that Rigo-Donaire was a purist's dream: It was a chess match where both had power and both were counterpunchers. Neither wanted to over-commit and preferred to pick and choose their shots.

Rigo chose to box. Donaire chose to fight. The fighter was taken out of his game and could not execute. The boxer actually boxed beautifully, and outscored the fighter in every round except the tenth.

Rigo didn't dominate every round, but as I wrote earlier there were only 2 rounds that anyone could honestly give to Donaire. Donaire, while always in the fight, simply kept throwing home run shots that never found a home.

I believe that Donaire never thought he could outbox Rigo, so he hoped to land something big early. He completely abandoned his jab and was headhunting the entire night.

Proof of that was in the tenth. The only way Nonito was able to land a heavy shot was to first grapple, then push off and only then was he able to land a big shot that earned him the knockdown.

Rigo hurt Donaire a few times in that fight. I don't think Donaire ever really hurt Rigo, even in the tenth. Rigo immediately stood up and began taking over the round.

This was the kind of match that an MMA fan hates and can't fathom. The sweet science is not kickboxing, and that's the reason that anyone would have anything negative to say about such a masterful performance.

Solid Solid post mate.

[damit305]

Carefully paying attention and blocking out the idiotic commentary. Anyone saying Donaire got "whitewashed" is absurd. This Rigo is way too inactive to have pitched a shutout. Hbo's commentary was disgraceful. Ignoring many of donaire's punches and touting the myth of compubox. Are they counting rigo's feints in compubox or what?

Don't get me wrong, the rounds donaire won, rigo gave away from inactivity.
3rd 4th 7th 8th were all Donaire's. 10th, donaire. 113

1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th, 9th, 11th, and 12th are ones I could justify for rigo, sometimes only by one good left hand or right hook, so I could easily see one of those rounds going to Donaire on a more biased persons card, resulting in a draw. 114 (cuz of the kd) The guy is just too inactive to win rounds in a shutout, I don't know what HBO is smoking but I want some.

114-113 Rigo

Btw compibox is effin broken at this point. Wow. You gonna tell me rigo landed 10 punches in the 8th? And that round they said Donaire landed only 3? Also wrong. Wtf is really going on.

Take your hbo glasses off please

PrecisePuncher is that you??

Rigo has a message for all you Donaire fans still trying to cope...

[Szef]

Carefully paying attention and blocking out the idiotic commentary. Anyone saying Donaire got "whitewashed" is absurd. This Rigo is way too inactive to have pitched a shutout. Hbo's commentary was disgraceful. Ignoring many of donaire's punches and touting the myth of compubox. Are they counting rigo's feints in compubox or what?

Don't get me wrong, the rounds donaire won, rigo gave away from inactivity.
3rd 4th 7th 8th were all Donaire's. 10th, donaire. 113

1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th, 9th, 11th, and 12th are ones I could justify for rigo, sometimes only by one good left hand or right hook, so I could easily see one of those rounds going to Donaire on a more biased persons card, resulting in a draw. 114 (cuz of the kd) The guy is just too inactive to win rounds in a shutout, I don't know what HBO is smoking but I want some.

114-113 Rigo

Btw compibox is effin broken at this point. Wow. You gonna tell me rigo landed 10 punches in the 8th? And that round they said Donaire landed only 3? Also wrong. Wtf is really going on.

Take your hbo glasses off please

Watch it again, sober this time

[BartBears]

He could have.. Was just too inactive though. The pathetic thing is that so many have to be told what they are seeing, instead of having an opinion for themselves.

i agree

look at the 7th round....some fools are saying rigo was schooling donaire when in reality he wasn't throwing anything

[Dr Rumack]

Think I'll give it a watch again with the sound off when I get the chance. I had it 11-1 Rigo and on my second watch I thought he was just as dominant, but commentary can influence your impression of a fight. No doubt about that.

I would argue with the general point being put forward by a lot of people that if Donaire could have 'done more', he could have taken a lot more rounds. Some people will say that an 11-1 fight can still be close in some sense because of the 'closeness within rounds' as opposed to the closeness on points. I actually agree with that and it's one of the reasons I put forward for thinking Miguel Cotto performed really well against Floyd Mayweather last year.

However, I don't think it applies to Rigo-Donaire, because even though Rigo wasn't exactly putting a beating on Donaire, Nonito was incapable of landing those extra shots he needed to win the rounds. And if he tried (and he did at times) to get them, all that happened was that Rigo ended up winning the round even more clearly.

Donaire could not up the pace of the action without taking several clean shots that were snapping his head back, and he was landing nowhere near enough in response to offset that damage. This is the 'control' that Rigo had over the fight. He had Donaire in a position where Donaire couldn't really do anything, because every time he tried things just got worse for him. I think that's about as clear a definition of dominance as you are going to get.