Guillermo Rigondeaux; FACTS!

[dan_cov]

The win/loss thing is very arguable, but no fighter ever fighting better competition in so few fights or time? Complete and utter rubbish. He's doing very well, and often gets too much hate for what he's done so far and how quickly he's moving along, but what you're saying above is flat out BS.

For example: the best Rigondeaux has fought would be Cordoba. He's only ever been an interim champ. Wasn't ever even a real champ. When he stepped up as mandatory, he either lost badly or drew (some would say stiffed against Sidorenko). He's fought one 'champ' in Ramos, and we have to see what becomes of him still.

Someone like Tszyu, fought two world champs in his first 6 fights. More than Rigondeaux already, in half the fights. He had had 13 fights over 3 years by the time he won his first title, similar to Rigondeaux, except he had beaten 4 world champions, and 3 or 4 number 1 contenders.

If you take away the very first guy Jeff Fenech beat, his win/loss ratio over the first three years of his career was about 265-41, much greater than Rigondeaux. Even with his first pro fight against a bum, it still only becomes about 290-75, which is basically exactly the same.

The big thing though: in those three years, same time as Rigondeaux but with a few more fights, he fought and beat 5 world champions, 2 HOFers, 3 undefeated number 1 fighters, 1 undefeated US Olympic gold medalist and hugely hyped prospect, and a bunch of other dudes with good records, but who weren't very good fighters. He had also become a two division world champ and still holds the record for becoming a world champ in the shortest time ever; 6 months.

That's not even going into some of the Asians who jump in and fight real champions nearly straight away. Guys like Sahaprom who was fighting in a proper title fight in his 4th pro fight against a 55-4 level world champ, then having his first defense against multi champ, bantam great, Nona Konadu. Or Muangsurin who won the 140 title in his 3rd fight.

Get this: 9 of his first 12 pro fights were WBC 140 title fights. Out of those 12 fights, 6 were against world champions, 4 were against number 1 contenders or title challengers and 2 were against journeymen. That destroys what Rigondeaux has done in the same time and amount of fights. Annihilates it.

What about Sot Chitalada? He fought prime HOF world champ Jung Koo Chang in his 5th fight, lost, then beat WBC champ Gabriel Bernal in his 8th, followed by a title defense against champ Charlie Magri, and a rematch against former champ Bernal and then another defense against two time champion Freddie Castillo. 11 fights, less than three years, 4 world champs, 1 prime HOFer over two divisions. Same amount of fights in the same time but much, much greater competition.

Pete Rademacher, in the same time fought Floyd Patterson, Zora Folley, Lamar Clark, George Chuvalo, Brian London and a bunch of other guys. I'm pretty positive that if you checked out the win/loss ratio there it would be similar. Better competition though.

Neon Leon: 11 fights, heavyweight champ, fought Ali twice, 32-4 two time title challenger Alfredo Evangelista, undefeated future champ Coetzee, plus top contenders/title challengers LeDoux, Righetti, and Agosta. Much better.

Davey Moore: champ in 8th fight. Had beaten two champs, including undefeated Miraha and 41-1 long time, 154 pound champ Ayub Kalule by his 10th. Had also beaten top contenders Weir, Rooney and Guidan. ATGs Duran and Benitez came in his 13th and 15th fights respectively.

Kazuto Ioka: 11 fights, two division, three time, unified world champion!!!! Two excellent world champs beaten (or three if for some bizarre reason you count Interim title as being world champ...?), especially long time undefeated Oleydong. Champ in 7th fight.

That's just the guys I remembered off the top of my head as fighting great comp early on. There are many more. Some I can remember but can't be bothered looking up. Nobuo Nashiro, Tatsuyoshi, Kittikasem,

Rigondeaux is doing good stuff, but its not close to any historic run.

Wow that is in depth, very nice informative post, green K

His oppositions win-to-lose ratio is among active boxers. Maybe I wrote ever? Not too sure but I imagine its still well up there.
I am not sure Ioka's is better without totting them all up but he sure isn't far off and has done some incredible things in so few fights.

I believe Oscar Dela Hoya holds the record overall.

Evander Holyfield is another with an incredible record, world champion in only his 12th pro fight & became undisputed Cruiserweight champion in only his 18th pro fight. But I'm sure you already know this.
He'd actually defeated Qawi & De Leon on route and did this all in just over 3 years as a pro.

[dan_cov]

Frampton's my favourite prospect at the moment. I think him and Rigondeaux should fight. Both have similar of fights and about the same level of resume.

Not going to happen though so in the mean time Frampton and Quigg should fight.

Frampton has to get past Kiko who is no pushover & can really crack but I would love to see Frampton vs Quigg at some stage.
In fact I feel that is a domestic rivalry that needs too happen!
I feel they may well steer clear of each other though and go after world titles.
I wouldn't mind seeing either knockout Kid Galahad tbh, he needs to go away, down to 118.

Liam Hanrahan is another of the British scene who has just turned pro. I am yet to see him in action but I hear good things & he did manage to stop ultra durable Delroy Spencer. (he has one of the worst records ever but he rarely gets stopped)

[MODAPHUKA]

This has to be the dumbest thread ever. You are trying to impress professional boxing fans with amateur stats , from a fighter who probably spent way too much time as an amateur.

Rigo is talented no doubt. But he has not done anything impressive in the pros. He has been boring and uninspiring. Not what I expect a fighter to be after being hyped as "the greatest amateur fighter in history". He can box the socks off anybody alright. But can he bang and win fights in other ways? It has yet to be proven.

[Shadow boxer 3]

his amateur career is impressive, let me know when he does something noteworthy as a pro

[dan_cov]

This has to be the dumbest thread ever. You are trying to impress professional boxing fans with amateur stats , from a fighter who probably spent way too much time as an amateur.

Rigo is talented no doubt. But he has not done anything impressive in the pros. He has been boring and uninspiring. Not what I expect a fighter to be after being hyped as "the greatest amateur fighter in history". He can box the socks off anybody alright. But can he bang and win fights in other ways? It has yet to be proven.

Its not just amateur stats though and why wouldn't boxing fans be impressed with what he did as an amateur? It is incredible.

What he has done as a pro is impressive, how many others can boast that at all nevermind in so few fights? You may find him boring, I don't & think you're basing this off maybe like 2 fights?
He has stopped 8 of 11. He has stopped or at least dropped everyone he has faced in the pro ranks. Hardly what you'd expect from somebody looking to steal rounds.

Its a shame Poonsawatt failed a medical as I have no doubt, that would of won a lot of people over & gave him a chance to showcase his skills against a legitimate world class operator that would of likely brought out the best in him.

[dan_cov]

his amateur career is impressive, let me know when he does something noteworthy as a pro

He has done plenty of things noteworthy as a pro but on here you apparently haven't unless you are a 3 weight world champion with multiple wins over future HOFers & such.

Its really not his fault people are pulling out of fighting him due to medical reasons & such
He is trying and wants all the big names.

Lets say he fought Poon and beat him. What would the excuses be then? ''hes only had 12 pro fights''
''Poon arguably lost to such & such''

The guy is trying to seal big fights as much as anybody in the sport right now. If lesser guys want it, he'll take it for now.
If he was a guy who was straying away from big fights, even certain fights, I'd understand.
He takes a fight with a decent prospect in his own right on like 3 days notice, he shuts him out, drops him twice but gets hit with two shots over a 12 round period - apparently this is him being exposed, like what the hell?

[IronDanHamza]

Frampton has to get past Kiko who is no pushover & can really crack but I would love to see Frampton vs Quigg at some stage.
In fact I feel that is a domestic rivalry that needs too happen!
I feel they may well steer clear of each other though and go after world titles.
I wouldn't mind seeing either knockout Kid Galahad tbh, he needs to go away, down to 118.

Liam Hanrahan is another of the British scene who has just turned pro. I am yet to see him in action but I hear good things & he did manage to stop ultra durable Delroy Spencer. (he has one of the worst records ever but he rarely gets stopped)

Kiko Martinez is no push over, it's going to be a tough fight and hopefully Frampton get's his chin tested. When the fight first came around but fell through I thought Martinez had a good chance of winning. After Frampton's last performance I favour Frampton though.

Quigg-Frampton has been brewing for a while now. It seemed that Quigg didn't want it at first but now it seems he does. And Frampton clearly wants it and soon. And I think that's a fight that will happen relatively soon. Both are good fighters IMO. Quigg has devastating body punches, I think Frampton is the all round better fighter though.

Not seen too much of Kid Galahad but what I have seen, I'm not overly impressed. He's decent, I suppose.

I've never seen Liam Hanrahan but I'll keep an eye out for him.

[MODAPHUKA]

Its not just amateur stats though and why wouldn't boxing fans be impressed with what he did as an amateur? It is incredible.

What he has done as a pro is impressive, how many others can boast that at all nevermind in so few fights? You may find him boring, I don't & think you're basing this off maybe like 2 fights?
He has stopped 8 of 11. He has stopped or at least dropped everyone he has faced in the pro ranks. Hardly what you'd expect from somebody looking to steal rounds.

Its a shame Poonsawatt failed a medical as I have no doubt, that would of won a lot of people over & gave him a chance to showcase his skills against a legitimate world class operator that would of likely brought out the best in him.

It is amateur stats , not at all that impressive either. Like I said , not many fighters get a chance to go to 2 Olympics. Yes I know he is Cuban and I know how all that works , so Im not going to hold it against him. But he was fighting way less experienced guys. He had a huge advantage over every opponent.

Regarding his professional career , he simply hasn't fought anybody elite. Marroquin was a "B" fighter , Cordoba was a "C" fighter. I dont see him getting past Donaire.

[dan_cov]

It is amateur stats , not at all that impressive either. Like I said , not many fighters get a chance to go to 2 Olympics. Yes I know he is Cuban and I know how all that works , so Im not going to hold it against him. But he was fighting way less experienced guys. He had a huge advantage over every opponent.

Regarding his professional career , he simply hasn't fought anybody elite. Marroquin was a "B" fighter , Cordoba was a "C" fighter. I dont see him getting past Donaire.

Less experienced guys? Come on man, seriously? He fought and beat the likes of Rahimov, Sooltonov, Mares, Hallab, Ptechkoom, Gamboa, Warren etc etc all with extensive amateur pedigrees
These guys and many more besides where just as experienced and had won the worlds &/or where euro & olympic medalists etc
These guys didn't luck any squad.
He spent a decade dominating the best amateurs on the planet.

And tbh I think its more the opposite with Corboda maybe being a ''B'' fighter & Marroquinn a ''C''
Elite is thrown around too much there are maybe a handful of guys who I'd class as ''elite'' right now. Off the top of my head Wladimir, Floyd, Ward, Gonzalez, Sergio (both debatable)
Donaire has beaten world class opposition but none I'd label as ''elite''

[BennyST]

He has done plenty of things noteworthy as a pro but on here you apparently haven't unless you are a 3 weight world champion with multiple wins over future HOFers & such.

Its really not his fault people are pulling out of fighting him due to medical reasons & such
He is trying and wants all the big names.

Lets say he fought Poon and beat him. What would the excuses be then? ''hes only had 12 pro fights''
''Poon arguably lost to such & such''

The guy is trying to seal big fights as much as anybody in the sport right now. If lesser guys want it, he'll take it for now.
If he was a guy who was straying away from big fights, even certain fights, I'd understand.
He takes a fight with a decent prospect in his own right on like 3 days notice, he shuts him out, drops him twice but gets hit with two shots over a 12 round period - apparently this is him being exposed, like what the hell?

Dont get me wrong though mate. I wasn't having a dig at you or Rigo. I love his fighting and he's one of my favourite guys at the moment. Some people are ignoring what he's doing, which is very good, while others can get a little overexcited by it too. He absolutely needs to be taking more of these fights that he has been taking, though stepping it up a little more. He needs to be active with guys no worse than Cordoba. There are enough out there, plenty in fact, that would jump at the chance and he needs to be way, way more active with those guys while waiting on the big fights.

He's shown the ability to beat the guys he needs to and get past those first tests as a pro, but he's still got a long way to go before reaching those others I mentioned. He needs to beat a proper, top rated world champ or serious former world champ that has all the tricks. Poon would have been great as a starter. He needs that a lot morethough. Especially now.

The big problem I see at the moment is his activity. He's a fresh pro, fighting on the timetable of a long term, seasoned veteran. Fighting once or twice, three max, a year is really going to hurt him bad. I think it will be that more than anything that will lead to his first loss. He needs all those little experiences that you simply cannot get, no matter how many fights you have, as an amateur. If you get hurt early, you don't have to get through one, or two rounds, max. You have to get through another ten!

If you hurt the other guy, but can't get him out of there, you need to be able to reset and think about going the full 12 rounds without gassing out, despite trying to get your guy out of there. Think Angulo recently.

The way he's going though, with only one or two fights, he's simply not going to get the pro experience necessary and when a bad moment comes, he's not going to have the mental and physical experience to help him out. Ward fought often early, and one of his greatest learning points was when he nearly got KTFO. Dropped hard, hurt badly, but he got his head together, focused, got through the round and it's never happened again. If it did, he knows he can get through it. He needs to get more styles under his belt too. He needs to fight a few more rough, pressure fighters that will try to push past his defense, get him tired etc etc. His management are not moving him well at all and he's going to pay when, or if, he steps up with a big leap into a style he still hasn't fought as a pro yet.

I would love to see him take on some other guys before Donaire/Mares etc to be honest. Personally, I dont think it would end well for Rigo, at this point. His biggest test, Cordoba, he passed. Just. He got a D. He needs more of those tests and he needs to be passing them with A's and B's.

He started in 2009, and he's only had 11 ****ing fights! What the hell are his management thinking? For a pro, whatever his experience in the amateurs, having only 11 fights over four years is the best way to lead him to disaster.

The biggest thing he needs, more than anything, is simply the feeling of getting into the ring and getting the experience going 12 rounds. His body and mind is absolutely hardwired to 3 round fights. Without lots of activity early, right now, as a pro going 6, 7, to 11, 12 rounds, they are inviting disaster in a big way. I simply cannot believe that they have only had him in four fights since 2010. It's goddamn 2013 and a brand new pro with 400 amateur fights needs some seriously quick grooming into the 12 rounder if he's already a champion!!! If they're not more careful, that will be the big thing that backfires on them.

I know that's one of the reasons they pushed Tszyu into 12 rounders quickly. They wanted to get his mental and physical amateur hardwiring out of him asap because he had so much amateur experience and had fought/beat so many great future champs already. So they threw him in with lots of experienced former champs and top contenders that would give him some hard times. It worked though. His first few fights were all 8 and 10 round fights. Never had anything less than an 8 rounder.

Rigo should have been fighting every two months minimum. Having only four fights since 2010 is just ****ing stupid. It's already been nearly 5 months since he last fought. Five months between fights and he's only had 11 fights as a pro. It's probably going to be another three minimum at the moment and he'll end up fighting only twice in 2013. Crazy.