Is Deontay Wilder More Overrated than Canelo Alvarez?

[ArtThouFurious?]

Canelo's career up until this point, is the very embodiment of the term hypejob.

He's become one of the biggest draws in the sport and is considered a legit opponent for the #1 fighter in the sport...
while not having faced one single top fighter in his division. A division which is one of the strongest in boxing at that.

He's basically Gerry Cooney'ing his way to the top.

While Wilder on the other hand, has no fanbase (outside his home state), barely any media exposure, is not really rated anywhere.

Canelo and it's not even debatable.

[ArtThouFurious?]

Getting shit pushed in by WWE's The Big Show

No punch landed and no knockdown occured.

Go watch the video.

BTW, didn't Harold Sconiers recently beat one of Wlad's career best wins earlier this year?

[Drunken Cat]

No punch landed and no knockdown occured.

Go watch the video.

BTW, didn't Harold Sconiers recently beat one of Wlad's career best wins earlier this year?

No, he beat Jameel McCline's shell. McCline wasn't one of Wlad's best wins by any stretch. But regardless, McCline hasn't beat anyone in more than 4 years, that is since beating Mike Mollo in 2008.

[BafanaBafana]

You see there? You just overrated him yourself.

Are you telling me Wilder is NOT the top American heavyweight prospect? Name me three American heavyweight PROSPECTS who are ahead of him.

[ArtThouFurious?]

No, he beat Jameel McCline's shell. McCline wasn't one of Wlad's best wins by any stretch. But regardless, McCline hasn't beat anyone in more than 4 years, that is since beating Mike Mollo in 2008.

He's hands down a top 6 win for Wlad based on his resume.

And McCline's a shell you say? What the hell type of condition do you think Sconiers is in, seeing as though his pro career has spanned almost as long McCline's, and he's been knocked out 12 fucking times?

[Ring Leader]

Canelo has more talent than Wilder.

[ArtThouFurious?]

Are you telling me Wilder is NOT the top American heavyweight prospect? Name me three American heavyweight PROSPECTS who are ahead of him.

Jennings has beaten better opponents up until this point, but Wilder has the higher ceiling without a doubt.

[Drunken Cat]

Are you telling me Wilder is NOT the top American heavyweight prospect? Name me three American heavyweight PROSPECTS who are ahead of him.

Bryant Jennings, Tor Hamer, and I would say Mitchell is still ahead of him as well. Jonathon Banks, if you want to consider him a prospect, is clearly well above. Jennings and Hamer are better prospects because they have more boxing ability and thus more potential. Miitchell has already achieved enough to be considered a considerable step above Wilder. He may have already peaked. But we don't know whether Wilder will reach his peak or not.

Wilder is certainly a boxing prospect, however. I'd prefer to go with Jennings and Hamer alone, and to say that I think they have more potential based on their tighter boxing game, which I value more than Wilder's (and Mitchell's for that matter) athleticism.

[ArtThouFurious?]

Bryant Jennings, Tor Hamer, and I would say Mitchell is still ahead of him as well. Jonathon Banks, if you want to consider him a prospect, is clearly well above. Jennings and Hamer are better prospects because they have more boxing ability and thus more potential. Miitchell has already achieved enough to be considered a considerable step above Wilder. He may have already peaked. But we don't know whether Wilder will reach his peak or not.

Wilder is certainly a boxing prospect, however. I'd prefer to go with Jennings and Hamer alone, and to say that I think they have more potential based on their tighter boxing game, which I value more than Wilder's (and Mitchell's for that matter) athleticism.

Didn't Hamer get outboxed not too long ago by the guy Wilder just flattened with one punch?

[Drunken Cat]

He's hands down a top 6 win for Wlad based on his resume.

And McCline's a shell you say? What the hell type of condition do you think Sconiers is in, seeing as though his pro career has spanned almost as long McCline's, and he's been knocked out 12 fucking times?

Hard to evaluate Sconiers, since we never really get to see him, but he was still good enough to beat McCline, so he must not be as shot as McCline is, seeing how he never reached within a stone throw of McCline's height. He's probably still the journyman he always was. As such, comparing the McCline that fought Sconier to that which fought Wlad. is a non-sequitur.

On paper, McCline might've been one of Wlad's better wins, but the man who fought Wlad on that day fought scared as hell. I would rate a number of Wlad's opponents higher, including Thompsan, Chagaev, Byrd, Ibragimov, Haye, Peter, and Brock. There's 6. I could see an argument for replacing one of the above guys with McCline as well, except that I think that these were all better fighters who would beat McCline. That gets into triangle theorizing, which isn't what I'm going for. But if you want to argue on the basis of who was a tougher fight, the fact is that McCline didn't present much of anything at all. You might even put Wach ahead, or maybe they are about the same.

This is very debatable though, and I can't say I dispute your placement of McCline as a top 6 win, either. But, I stand by my comment that the Sconier comparison was sort of irrelevant given McCline's track record.

For the record, I'd still like to see Wilder succeed. I just am tired of the way he's being moved, and have taken up being very critical; moreover, I see a lot of flaws and I will call them out. The two things are related. I think that the people behind him know he is flawed, and this gives more fodder to the criticism. I had hope for Wilder once, but my hope has faded. I'll still watch him, but I won't anticipate his rising to the top anymore, in large part based on what I see when he is in the ring. A big right hand against no hopers doesn't impress me, especially when he can't even abide by boxing fundamentals like keeping his hands up or working off the jab, and his footwork is sloppy (although it has improved).