How many FULL Ray Robinson fights have you seen?

[dan_cov]

So basically what you're saying is that he ducked

Ezzard Charles, a light heavyweight when Robinson was a welterweight and a heavyweight when Robinson was a middleweight? He should've moved up two divisions in weight?

Jimmy Bivins, the number 1 heavyweight contender when Robinson was a welterweight?

Archie Moore, a light heavyweight when Robinson was a welterweight? A man that Ray Robinson nearly fought in the late 50's when he was well washed up.

Burley was the guy that Robinson did not want to face. The reward was not worth the risk for Robinson to fight an opponent who campaigned in the middleweight division when Robinson himself was waiting on his long-due titleshot in the welterweight division. Robinson deserved a title shot by 1941, he didn't get one until the end of 1946. By the time Robinson started defending the title, Burley was out of the picture.

There's film of Robinson vs Abrams and Robinson gets the better of the visible action. It was far from the robbery that you're making it out to be. Abrams was a legendary spoiler who made almost everyone he ever fought look bad, including Robinson whom he outweighed by 12 pounds, but that was the extent of it. He did not "smash" Robinson.

Look at the welterweight rankings of the 1940's, there's barely anybody that Ray Robinson did not fight. He was one of the few examples that truly cleaned out his division to the extent that there was nobody left for him to face. The man that he beat twice, Kid Gavilan, reigned as the champion for many years afterwards.

Ezzard Charles was at 160 when SRR was fluctuating, scared to go up fully & face Burley.
Archie Moore was still fighting at middleweight until post war, fighting the likes of Cocoa Kid, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Jimmy Bivins (fighters Robinson notoriously ducked)

Robinson fluctuated between weights, avoiding guys like the plague. He invented catchweights.
He got knocked out by Cocoa kid in sparring, was meant to fight a faded, washed up near 40yr old version and he failed to show up!


Did Sugar Ray ever fight a top black boxer at their peak? If so out of interest could you name them? Or list what his excuse(s) were...

[dibzvincent143]

nice thread, now we can all witness. imo, he's not the greatest of all time, I have only watch boxing for 6 years now, and I'd rather go with the likes of Duran and Leonard as the best of all time.. Floyd is also very scientific, accurate and etc, but he doesn't match the resume of this guys and how they faced them...

Prime RJJ was also unbeatable with his supreme athleticism, he can do anything he virtually imagines in the ring.. He beat a prime and very skillful Hopkins..

[IronDanHamza]

I get the sense you were unaware how much footage of Robinson there was.

[TheGreatA]

Ezzard Charles was at 160 when SRR was fluctuating, scared to go up fully & face Burley.
Archie Moore was still fighting at middleweight until post war, fighting the likes of Cocoa Kid, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Jimmy Bivins (fighters Robinson notoriously ducked)

The last time Charles ever competed as a middleweight was in 1942. At this time Robinson was a 20 year old welterweight who weighed between 140 and 144 pounds.

1943 was the last time Archie Moore ever competed at middleweight.

Robinson did not avoid a single one of them aside from Burley, a fact that has already been proven in this thread. Maybe he could've fought Cocoa Kid, but he beat several opponents who themselves had beaten Kid.

Robinson fluctuated between weights, avoiding guys like the plague. He invented catchweights.
He got knocked out by Cocoa kid in sparring, was meant to fight a faded, washed up near 40yr old version and he failed to show up!

Robinson never fought at a catchweight. Over-the-limit bouts were frequent during those days when boxers often fought several times a month in order to get paid. It's fairly clear that he campaigned as a welterweight in the 1940's and then as a middleweight in the 1950's. He took on middleweights in the 1940's because it often meant better pay, but he did not have any serious aspirations to win the middleweight title until 1949.

He was knocked down by Cocoa Kid in a sparring session. Not knocked out.

Did Sugar Ray ever fight a top black boxer at their peak? If so out of interest could you name them? Or list what his excuse(s) were...

You may have heard of Kid Gavilan or Randy Turpin. California Jackie Wilson was the #2 rated welterweight contender (who had whupped Cocoa Kid), so were George Costner and Tommy Bell. Ray Barnes and Holly Mims were ranking middleweights.


Kid Gavilan


George Costner


Tommy Bell


Jose Basora

[Gonzalez_Boxing]

Since you guys are talking old school. I figured I'd post a few comparison pics of my vintage Flores 6 oz. fight gloves, a brand Robinson has been known to use in a few of his fights.

Flores 6 oz./Grant and Everlast 10 oz.
[IMG]http://i1225.***********.com/albums/ee393/rskbreaker/IMG_6150.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i1225.***********.com/albums/ee393/rskbreaker/IMG_6149.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i1225.***********.com/albums/ee393/rskbreaker/IMG_6148.jpg[/IMG]

Top to bottom 6/8/10 oz. Flores gloves.
[IMG]http://i1225.***********.com/albums/ee393/rskbreaker/0f8fdf56.jpg[/IMG]

[-Hyperion-]

TheGreatA laying the smackdown.....


I don't really like comparing guys from the past to the present, its just a different sport now......the gloves, the rounds and the weigh-in alone make the strategy and techniques completely different.....

just appreciate what they accomplished in their time.

[TX_BOXNG]

TheGreatA laying the smackdown.....


I don't really like comparing guys from the past to the present, its just a different sport now......the gloves, the rounds and the weigh-in alone make the strategy and techniques completely different.....

just appreciate what they accomplished in their time.

wow hardly ever think of that but when i do remember u just gotta think these guys were even more amazing

[SugarAnt05]

Most of boxing back then was ran by the mafia. Couldn't even get a title shot unless they approved it. It's also damn near impossible to compare boxers back then to now. Rules are different, gloves, etc. its like basketball, Kareem scored all those point s because centers could camp out in the middle all game long. I think Sugar Ray was one of the all time greats, but I grew up watching boxing during the Leonard, haggles, hearts, Duran days, and all of them would give ray would've gave Ray hell. It's all a matter of opinion, my son thinks sweet Pea is the greatest ever...go figure

[Larry the boss]

bummmmmmmmmmmp witness

[Larry the boss]

Since you guys are talking old school. I figured I'd post a few comparison pics of my vintage Flores 6 oz. fight gloves, a brand Robinson has been known to use in a few of his fights.

Flores 6 oz./Grant and Everlast 10 oz.
[IMG]http://i1225.***********.com/albums/ee393/rskbreaker/IMG_6150.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i1225.***********.com/albums/ee393/rskbreaker/IMG_6149.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i1225.***********.com/albums/ee393/rskbreaker/IMG_6148.jpg[/IMG]

Top to bottom 6/8/10 oz. Flores gloves.
[IMG]http://i1225.***********.com/albums/ee393/rskbreaker/0f8fdf56.jpg[/IMG]

man he was damn near fighting bareknuckle