Was it wrong that Raheem didn't get the Pacquiao Shot over Morales?

[talip bin osman]

Love counterpunching and ring generalship in the context of constant action, it's part of boxing. Ring generalship in the context of running or strategic retreat I hate, counterpunching in the context of 10 potshots a round I hate.

i dont like those types of fighters too... i think if somebody says they like the styles of derrick gainer or corey spinks then im inclined to think they are bluffing...

[lfc19titles]

Amazing how you all defend mayweather for making these business decisions yet criticise Pacman. Think logically now, what would have made Pac more money, Fighting a future Hall of famer and still a quality boxer in morales making big bucks thus making it a high risk vs high reward match up for pac or a low reward vs high risk in Raheem

I have seen a few of Raheems fights, pac would have ate him up, still you can't fight everyone, its like he went after a bum or something, he went after Morales who was very solid

[turbotime]

Love counterpunching and ring generalship in the context of constant action, it's part of boxing. Ring generalship in the context of running or strategic retreat I hate, counterpunching in the context of 10 potshots a round I hate.

Still waiting on where you got those fight night weights for the Pacquiao fights....

[Brother Jay]

Margarito at 167. Mosley at 165. Clottey and Cotto at 165. These are fight night weights in the ring.

You must be a new fan of boxing, this stuff has been going on for decades. It used to be fighters had to weigh the day of the fight but with the change to weighing-in the day before, this is the result. Fighters drain themselves to make weight then bulk up for the fight.

Hahahahahaha ... stop toying with him, Turbo.

[4Corners]

I didn't have a problem with Pac rematching Morales, because Morales beat him. But, that rematch should have happened after Pacquiao-Raheem. Instead, we saw Raheem-Freitas and Pacquiao-Morales II.

Funny how certain people say so and so didn't end up fighting Tszyu, Margarito, Lazcano, or Williams. But, they often forget that Pac didn't end up fighting Guzman, Soto, Raheem, Casamayor, or Berto.

Some fights just don't happen, especially with the fighters that jump through different weight classes. It's next to impossible to completely clean out a division, and I mean completely beat everyone ranked high. Ali cleaned out HW in the 60's, that's what cleaning out a division is.

[$tate of Mind]

Raheem had a style that wasn't to Pacquiao's liking. He cashed out by beating a faded Morales.

[Brother Jay]

I didn't have a problem with Pac rematching Morales, because Morales beat him. But, that rematch should have happened after Pacquiao-Raheem. Instead, we saw Raheem-Freitas and Pacquiao-Morales II.

Funny how certain people say so and so didn't end up fighting Tszyu, Margarito, Lazcano, or Williams. But, they often forget that Pac didn't end up fighting Guzman, Soto, Raheem, Casamayor, or Berto.

Some fights just don't happen, especially with the fighters that jump through different weight classes. It's next to impossible to completely clean out a division, and I mean completely beat everyone ranked high. Ali cleaned out HW in the 60's, that's what cleaning out a division is.

Ali only ever fought for HW championships though. He doesn't get a pass just because he was a HW.

And Ali didn't do anything that Roy Jones didn't do at 175lbs.

[4Corners]

Ali only ever fought for HW championships though. He doesn't get a pass just because he was a HW.

And Ali didn't do anything that Roy Jones didn't do at 175lbs.

I wasn't bashing Roy, he's on of my favorites. I was just using Ali as an example of cleaning out a division. And I went on to say it's hard to clean out entire weight classes with the fghters that have jumped through multiple weight classes as quick as they have.

Ali did beat everyone at HW from 62/63-67 though.

Doug Jones, Archie Moore, Henry Cooper, Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, George Chuvalo, Ernie Terrell, Karl Mildenberger, Zora Folley, and Brian London. The only people I can think of that that he didn't fight that were Top 10 for awhile was probably Thad Spencer, and that's about it.

And I love Roy, he's an ATG, H2H probably in the Top 10, but Ali has a better resume than Roy Jones.

4 ATG HW's in Liston, Patterson, Frazier, and Foreman, on top of beating every other top HW while he fought. Such as Cooper, Chuvalo, Terrell, Mildenberger, Quarry, Bonavena, B. Foster, Norton, Lyle, Shavers, Young, Bugner, Blin, and Ellis.

[HEZEKYHWH]

Just rewatched that fight the other night on ESPN classics, and man, Raheem made Morales look foolish.

Do you think it was wrong that Raheem was never in the running for a fight with Pacquiao, and that Pacquiao was served up Morales instead?

While it was a fight I would have loved, it wasnt wrong in pacs case. He would rather take an easier fight with morales than fight raheem... Was it a cherry pick? YES, but at the same time HE WENT FOR THE MONEY FIGHT...

On a side note, I dont think he would have beat Zahir though. He would have gotten smashed...

[Brother Jay]

I wasn't bashing Roy, he's on of my favorites. I was just using Ali as an example of cleaning out a division. And I went on to say it's hard to clean out entire weight classes with the fghters that have jumped through multiple weight classes as quick as they have.

Ali did beat everyone at HW from 62/63-67 though.

Doug Jones, Archie Moore, Henry Cooper, Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, George Chuvalo, Ernie Terrell, Karl Mildenberger, Zora Folley, and Brian London. The only people I can think of that that he didn't fight that were Top 10 for awhile was probably Thad Spencer, and that's about it.

And I love Roy, he's an ATG, H2H probably in the Top 10, but Ali has a better resume than Roy Jones.

4 ATG HW's in Liston, Patterson, Frazier, and Foreman, on top of beating every other top HW while he fought. Such as Cooper, Chuvalo, Terrell, Mildenberger, Quarry, Bonavena, B. Foster, Norton, Lyle, Shavers, Young, Bugner, Blin, and Ellis.

I didn't think you were bashing Jones.

I am simply saying that Jones beat better boxers. No one on Ali's resume was as good as a prime, p4p#1 James Toney. No one.

At HW, the intrigue had to do with weight disparity and punching power. Very little of it had to do with skills or ring generalship.

Ali was great boxer, but he is far from the greatest. Ali in his prime lost to C+ fighter Ken Norton. That right there tells the story.

The problem here is that you like most fans don't know how to appropriate the value of HW fights. Anything that happens at HW is damn nearly legitimized by the greater size and historically has been that way since the beginning.

This is why silly fans nowadays include the Klitschkos on P4P lists .. not realizing that were it not for their extreme size they would be journeymen in other divisions.

At 175 Jones had to bring a splintered division together. At SMW RJJ defeated a P4P#1. At MW RJJ defeated future HOF'er and ATG Bernard Hopkins. And the fact that Jones captured a HW title just puts Jones a shelf above Ali.

While both fighters were accused of having a "bum of the month club", Jones was only accused of that at ltHW. Ali has only competed in one division.