Who has a better resume at welterweight, Floyd or Pacquiao?

[IronDanHamza]

Ortiz beat Berto clearly after round 9 when Berto had nothing left, before round 9 was a clear life or death struggle, which is why it earned itself an honorable mention as fight of the year.

It really wasn't a 'life and death struggle' at any point. Ortiz controlled most rounds. And there was barely a single round in which Berto clearly won the round.

And as you said, from Round 9 on, Ortiz controlled.

Had Berto got that decision it would have been a complete robbery. Hense, why it wasn't life and death, at all.

Ortiz WAS thoroughly outboxed, it's an opinion, so take it with a grain of salt sir. I don't think the draw was bull**** either, also an opinion.

It's a ****** one.

He wan't 'thoroughly outboxed' at all.

What rounds did he thoroghly outbox him in?

He outboxed him and won rounds Rounds 6-9 clearly. That's 4 rounds. That's not a thorough outboxing.

It's the same exact situation as Pac-JMM I, and I know many will debate that fight, so what's the problem in considering this one was in the same boat?

Pacquaio-Marquez 1 was a razor close fight. That is something that it is pretty much impossible to argue.

And no, it's not irrelevant. I'm not assuming this is you, but many will agree in saying that JMM would have beat Pac in the first fight as well. Again, same boat. I don't get why we even bring that up as a counter-debate.

Yes, it is.

This is Boxing, the sport of punching your opponent and trying to knock them out.

Saying 'Well fighter A would have beaten fighter B if it weren't for the knockdowns' is completely irrelevant.

Like I said, it's as relevant as saying 'Fighter A would have beaten fighter B if he didn't knock him out cold'

That's what they're supposed to do. If you get dropped, you lose a point. That's how it works, an that's their fault.

Even attempting to disregard them as just flat out ******.

[jrosales13]

What am I talking about? You just answered your own question before you said that...

The LIMIT has to be at 147. You can weigh under the limit, but not over. But when the CONTRACTED WEIGHT LIMIT IS BELOW 147, it's a completely different story. So whatever point you clearly tried to switch gears with on the whole 141-147 excuse is fairly common knowledge, and actually goes without saying, so you make it look utterly ****** by even bringing it into the argument and creating a bunch of unneeded confusion amongst us. Unless you actually didn't know the fights being argued were actually contracted between 140 and 147 and you're just trying to cover your trail?

Now back to my title of debate. Physically, a fight at 148 is just as credible at 146. Are you really going to consider a fight at 170 a LHW bout over a SMW bout just because it could be for a LHW belt? Like I said, lets leave the technicalities behind and focus on the nature of the human body consider the differences between the body rather than what they are fighting for or what they were fighting at. ****, from your thought process, if two fighters were suppose to fight at 154 limit but both weighed in at 148, you consider it a JMW bout rather than a WW bout based off of poor technicalities (flawed to say the least). Honestly, I would consider it WW, because I like to round things off

And Baldomir being "lineal champ" is such a poor argument, especially when you're not considering how he got them, hahahaha.

Are we talking about WW resumes? Now what is considered a WW fight?

The Floyd-JMM fight was at WW end of.

The Pac-Margarito fight was at JMW/SWW for a bogus JMW/SWW title end of.

[BG_Knocc_Out]

LOL you guys say Mayweather hasn't fought much good competition than turn around and say none of these guys are good enough to fight him??? So what should Mayweather do, not fight anyone? You guys behave like Mayweather hasn't proved himself against any good competition but then turn around and say he's too good for the guys he's fighting? How does that make any sense.

Manny has fought one champion at welterweight while Floyd has fought several. How can Manny have the better resume above 140 when his toughest fight was against a past prime lightweight in a fight many people thought he lost? Just drop your bias for once.

Now you're making accusations and completely ignoring the point of that post. The clear point of that post was to deny Judah, Baldo, and Ortiz as the "great credible opponents" a few of you are making them out to be, and I was simply pointing out as to how they earned their shot, and the level of the earning was. What about that doesn't make any sense? Now, I'm not sure if you did, but it seems as if you may have twisted my words a little to hear what you want to believe so you can attack me on those standings.

Floyd fought what everyone on these boards like to call "paper champs". What I hate is how everyone preaches how terrible the title system nowadays is, then turn around and use it as an excuse to point out credible opponents. Come on. If you're using titles to measure the amount of greatness in one fighter in this modern era, you're using a shaky tactic. Lets focus on the individual and what we see out of that fighter with our own eyes rather than what the WBC, WBO, IBF, etc, etc think.

Bias? I'm not giving any bias here. Shit, I couldn't give two fucks about Pacquiao. If you're referring to my avatar, it's only there because I thought the picture was hilarious, not because I'm a big fan of Pacquiao. And trust me, I'm no fan-boy regardless, I try to keep any favoritism out of posts because I'm a realist. You should see my remarks about Pavlik.... Hahaha.

[mikemurni]

Yes Marg around that time was the best fighter in the division. He wasn't no where near that at the time Pac fought him.

Baldo was the lineal champ of the division at that time...Not to be confused with the best fighter(that went to Marg) but the champ of the division. And, still a top rated fighter in the division. The thing is Floyd fought him at this time.

Again more importantly than who is when.

Marg should have been the opponent for Floyd, not Baldo..

And the so-called "when" is bull**** considering that neither of those 3 had any loses against any other fighter other than against themselves going in to a Pac fight...Guys like Baldo, Judah, and Ortiz had those records simply because they never fought the type of competition at WW compared to Cotto, Mosley, and Marg. And the same can be said to Bradley at WW even though he has proven himself at Jr WW, unlike Ortiz...

[Kagami Taiga]

Marg should have been the opponent for Floyd, not Baldo..

And the so-called "when" is bull**** considering that neither of those 3 had any loses against any other fighter other than against themselves going in to a Pac fight...Guys like Baldo, Judah, and Ortiz had those records simply because they never fought the type of competition at WW compared to Cotto, Mosley, and Marg. And the same can be said to Bradley at WW even though he has proven himself at Jr WW, unlike Ortiz...

dude, ur not even making sense anymore, u do realize that rite?

[cupocity303]

Joshua Clottey >>> S. Mitchell

Zab Judah >>> Delahoya

2010 Mosley >>> 2011 Mosley

Cotto >>> Baldomir

2009 Marquez >>> 2011 Marquez

2007 Ricky Hatton >>>> Oh yeah, I have ran out of opponents beaten by Pacquiao at 147.


Conclusion: Mayweather >>> Pacquiao's 147 resume.

[Reloaded]

19, yet I can guarantee you 99% of people like you on these boards ever stepped foot into the ring. Now, I don't ever play this little "my back story is more credible than yours" childish game. 160? I find this funny, you pointing out my age with the intention of making me look like an ignorant adolescent, yet you have to exaggerate your information to try and get your point across.

You talk **** kid , ODH weighed better than 160 on the night against Floyd , like I said learn boxing because every post you show what you dont know , it needs to be a childish game because thats what you really are !!

[Johnwoo8686]

Now you're making accusations and completely ignoring the point of that post. The clear point of that post was to deny Judah, Baldo, and Ortiz as the "great credible opponents" a few of you are making them out to be, and I was simply pointing out as to how they earned their shot, and the level of the earning was. What about that doesn't make any sense? Now, I'm not sure if you did, but it seems as if you may have twisted my words a little to hear what you want to believe so you can attack me on those standings.

Floyd fought what everyone on these boards like to call "paper champs". What I hate is how everyone preaches how terrible the title system nowadays is, then turn around and use it as an excuse to point out credible opponents. Come on. If you're using titles to measure the amount of greatness in one fighter in this modern era, you're using a shaky tactic. Lets focus on the individual and what we see out of that fighter with our own eyes rather than what the WBC, WBO, IBF, etc, etc think.

Bias? I'm not giving any bias here. Shit, I couldn't give two fucks about Pacquiao. If you're referring to my avatar, it's only there because I thought the picture was hilarious, not because I'm a big fan of Pacquiao. And trust me, I'm no fan-boy regardless, I try to keep any favoritism out of posts because I'm a realist. You should see my remarks about Pavlik.... Hahaha.

LOL so what do you have to do to become a "credible opponent" for Mayweather? If beating a champion or becoming the lineal champ is not enough what should these guys have done?

The only guy that Manny has fought who has won a significant fight in recent years is Marquez and we all saw what happened when Manny fought him in November.

In the words of Max Kellerman : "Manny hasn't fought a great fighter who still had it since the last time he fought Marquez and it is obvious that the great Juan Manuel Marquez still has it"

[BG_Knocc_Out]

Are we talking about WW resumes? Now what is considered a WW fight?

The Floyd-JMM fight was at WW end of.

The Pac-Margarito fight was at JMW/SWW for a bogus JMW/SWW title end of.

Here's what I'm trying to get at. If you take a look at both of their WW resumes, you can see, although contracted for 147 (majority), their weights are all over the place. Coming in as low as 142 for a WW fight. Get what I'm saying man? No reason to freak out that I mentioned a 150 fight (if we rounded of, it was closer to 147 than 154 if we want to get technical hahaha).

Floyd-JMM was contracted as a catch-weight fight at 144, and not 147, making it marked and titled as a catchweight fight rather than WW.

Pac-Margarito was contracted for 150 as a catchweight fight (although the sanctioning bodies played buddy-buddy with the promoters to work their magic to put a 154 lb belt on the line, but don't let that fool you). That's only 3 lbs over 147, and I consider that more of a WW fight than JMW fight (if labeling it as catchweight was off limits).

Ya feel me *****?

It really wasn't a 'life and death struggle' at any point. Ortiz controlled most rounds. And there was barely a single round in which Berto clearly won the round.

And as you said, from Round 9 on, Ortiz controlled.

Had Berto got that decision it would have been a complete robbery. Hense, why it wasn't life and death, at all.



It's a ****** one.

He wan't 'thoroughly outboxed' at all.

What rounds did he thoroghly outbox him in?

He outboxed him and won rounds Rounds 6-9 clearly. That's 4 rounds. That's not a thorough outboxing.



Pacquaio-Marquez 1 was a razor close fight. That is something that it is pretty much impossible to argue.



Yes, it is.

This is Boxing, the sport of punching your opponent and trying to knock them out.

Saying 'Well fighter A would have beaten fighter B if it weren't for the knockdowns' is completely irrelevant.

Like I said, it's as relevant as saying 'Fighter A would have beaten fighter B if he didn't knock him out cold'

That's what they're supposed to do. If you get dropped, you lose a point. That's how it works, an that's their fault.

Even attempting to disregard them as just flat out ******.

Now you're contradicting yourself by ignoring Berto's knockdowns. And Berton Landed a great amount of counter rights and locked a few of the rounds in between. Now you're turning what I said around to try and make yourself sound like you got the upper hand. I clearly stated the first 9 rounds were life and death, the last rounds were shutout by Ortiz which would give him the clear decision. This statement would imply that I clearly thought Ortiz won, which would make your hypothetical situation where Berto would have won completely irrelevant. Why mention it.

Peterson was snapping Ortiz's head back with jabs and landing hard counter rights when Ortiz came in all night. Once Peterson got knocked down, he adjusted and Ortiz got little to nothing off the rest of the night. I would consider that out-boxing when you can keep a guy from landing for 6 rounds.

Peterson-Ortiz was razor close as well. Only difference was it being 10 rounds and not 12.

And I find it hilarious that you're trying to spew exactly what I've been preaching, as if I didn't know it already hahaha. You typed that up for absolutely no reason...

[daggum]

More importantly than who is when...When Floyd fought Mosley, Mosley was considered a top WW...When Pac fought Mosley, Shane wasn't considered a top WW.

Marg was not considered a top WW when Pac fought him...And, even then that fight wasn't even at WW.

The Clottey level win is just as good as the Judah level win...Clottey was just as unproven as them.

Again more importantly than who is when.

considerations are a fine point to start at but look at the actual fights. mosley was crap in both so just because he was considered good when may fought him doesn't mean he was actually good in reality.

clottey unproven? he dominated judah and had debatable losses to the top 2 welterweights maragrito and cotto. he proved he was one of the best welters. he could have been undefeated going into the pac figth if he wasn't the constant b-side. judah was 1-1 vs spinks and lost to a journeyman baldomir. i don't see them on the same level at all.