Marquez "I Cant Fight Without a Hyperbaric Chamber."Grandpas-"Technology Dont Matter"

[TheGreatA]

I wouldn't read to much into a photo of a fighter posing my friend. But there was absolutely a science to the way they fought. Here is an article and a video that can explain it much better than myself. And remember, this way of fighting goes all the way back to the likes of Joe Gans.

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/boxingskill.html

http://********/81non05aKX4

Aside from it being a promotional photo, Dixon looks ancient because he was ancient. Dixon fought in the late 1800's. Go that far back and there are obviously some differences. The man debuted in 1886. That's 125 years ago.

Nobody is saying that boxers from 120 years ago would destroy anyone today. It's just that regularly boxing 25 rounds, 40+ rounds like Dixon did regularly, obviously the fighting is going to look a lot different. Make Mayweather fight a 45 round contest against a tough opponent with small gloves that puts him at risk to break his already brittle hands, and you'd see very, very different type of strategy from him. Even now he fights at an extremely low pace because he has the skill to control his opponents.

[JAB5239]

The slobs are mostly out of America though. They're a product of their environment, and the Western Diet.

I don't see that many slobs that are outside of America. Even the guy we all considered BUM-esque in Albert Sosnowski, was ripped on fight night. Blame America and it's culture.

Outside of it, Boxers are still being Boxers, training like they're supposed to.

I respectfully disagree. This isn't just a heavyweight American problem, but a world wide heavyweight problem.

Solis-Cuba
Povetkin-Russia
Peter-Nigeria
Chisora-UK

The list goes on and on and it includes many Americans too. The bottom line is fighter today think bigger is better and don't train down to their best weight which effects stamina. Without proper stamina you can't properly use your skills consistently and it makes you slower.

Now I may not think much of his comp, but Vitaly, besides his skills and toughness almost always comes in tip top shape and it's a major reason he is able to dominate. Derrick Chisora looks vastly more skilled than Tyson Fury and was looking good the first few rounds until his lack of stamina took over. Against Adamek, Arreola lost steam and was outfought down the line after building an early lead. Liakhovich against Briggs. Briggs against Ibragimov. Lewis in the first Rahman fight. David Tua skills and stamina suffered as a result of being to heavy. I could go on, but I think you get my point. Peace.

And thank you for the green. I was unable to return some but will hit you back another time. We may disagree about some things but you're a good poster.

[MaD RoBoT]

most of us were judging them old school fighters based on few old-assed footages available where they looked "cartoony"

but i can bet not one of them can be considered a "pickling" against nowadays fighters

in fact, i can safely say that they were one of toughest basterds in the sports

though im a Pac fan, i doubt Pac could last 20 rounds against some of them old school fighters

[JAB5239]

most of us were judging them old school fighters based on few old-assed footages available where they looked "cartoony"

but i can bet not one of them can be considered a "pickling" against nowadays fighters

in fact, i can safely say that they were one of toughest basterds in the sports

though im a Pac fan, i doubt Pac could last 20 rounds against some of them old school fighters

There are plenty of fighters today who would be competitive in any era, and that includes Pac. But the sport as a whole has digressed as far as skills and stamina in my opinion.

[JAB5239]

Aside from it being a promotional photo, Dixon looks ancient because he was ancient. Dixon fought in the late 1800's. Go that far back and there are obviously some differences. The man debuted in 1886. That's 125 years ago.

Nobody is saying that boxers from 120 years ago would destroy anyone today. It's just that regularly boxing 25 rounds, 40+ rounds like Dixon did regularly, obviously the fighting is going to look a lot different. Make Mayweather fight a 45 round contest against a tough opponent with small gloves that puts him at risk to break his already brittle hands, and you'd see very, very different type of strategy from him. Even now he fights at an extremely low pace because he has the skill to control his opponents.

I've said for a long time now that Floyd could compete with any fighter in history and be great under today's conditions. If he had to fight under the conditions of earlier era's (longer fights, fighting more often, gloves with little protection) it would be his hands, not his skills, that held him back from greatness.

[-Lowkey-]

Less rounds, less fights, less punching, less combinations, less fighters and more weight classes and titles. It's not hard to figure out training techniques are not any better today in spite of technology. Medicine, yes. Training methods, no.

This explains why perfectly, but Im sure most will not bother to read or just flat out ignore it.

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/fighterspast.html

Thread should of ended here. TS is a known idiot anyway.

[strykr619]

Who fought 15 rounds once a month? And besides do you understand anything about things like kinesiology or training? If you had a fight every month you couldn't actually make gains or improvements in your conditioning.

And the evidence completely supports me. At 13 years old I was a faster swimmer than anyone who ever lived prior to 1920. Did the properties of water change? Guess what our knowledge trained we learned how to train and how growth and gains come in RECOVERY not in training.

I would have beaten Jack Johnson to death in the ring and exposed him for the b1tch he was. I would have then taken his woman and spilt my seed in her.

LOL your troll is weak. Your ass would have gotten murked by Jack Johnson inside 4 rounds.

[KickAzz]

I just think its funny how a top 10 p4p boxer talks about how he couldn't perform without modern technology. We see his workouts utilizing modern theories on fitness. We have all this evidence that modern athletes are far superior. However, old people still want to believe their part time fighting heroes could compete today. Its hilarious. I would have knocked Jack Johnson out, probably in 1 round.

while it might be true that boxers are better athletes these days, old school boxers still have a lot more skills and remember they fought 15 rounders.

[Tiozzo]

Then how do you explain old, fat-ass George Foreman coming back and knocking people out to win the belt?

comebacking Foreman fighting style was pretty economical in the energy department

he would walk forward, stalking his opponent without wasting many punches out of his famous, straight-up mummy like stance

I believe he was standing in his corner between rounds because it burnt more energy for his 260 lbs frame to sit down/get up than to just wait standing up, but that's just my opinion

[Tiozzo]

All I know is that Marquez's legs look like twigs. I think he would have benefited from a more solid base. Most old timers worked on their legs daily. The upper body was not as important, in fact being muscle-bound was looked down upon (for legitimate reasons I'd say). I have a feeling that Marquez's "modern" conditioning will backfire badly in his upcoming fight.

I think taking one look at a boxer like Harold Johnson will make you think twice whether today's boxers are truly more athletic, well-conditioned or skilled.

The man fought 60 years ago, yet I think it's very hard to make a case that any of today's light heavyweights (one of which is a 46 year old man) looks better than him on film.

Wolgast moved quite a bit and does not utilizing constant footwork mean that you're not in great condition? Is Margarito not in great condition? Both of these men were known as sluggers in their day, although Wolgast could also box fairly well, though not as well as Joe Gans, Willie Ritchie, Packey McFarland or Benny Leonard who were seen as the skillful boxers in those times. Gans utilized footwork against Nelson for 42 rounds in a bout that is on film.

Nelson was criticized in his day for having no skill, comparable to a Ricardo Mayorga nowadays. Even then he looks fairly good throwing straight punches and working constantly. He was throwing 80 punches a round in a 45 round fight. That is incredible.

Both of these fighters did nothing but train their whole life, you didn't have many distractions back in those days. You did not throw after-fight parties, you did not go up in weight in between the fights, you did not drain yourself to make weight, you fought every month. Nelson in particular fought 6 20 round fights in the span of 6 months.

It's true about the improved safety in comparison to the early 1900's, Nelson and Wolgast paid a very high price in this fight. Safety hasn't much improved from the mid 1900s though because the dangers back then have been replaced by the dangers of weight-draining especially in the lower weight divisions where ring injuries and deaths still regularly take place.

Neither does one need to go through that in order to be a well-conditioned boxer. Floyd Mayweather? A lot of the stuff Margarito does there is pretty much old time training techniques anyhow. What's not is the way he dehydrates himself with various (arguably illegal) methods to make an extremely low weight that gives him an advantage over smaller opponents.



What does Margarito do differently? Throw 10-20 more punches a round in a 10-12 round fight compared to 80 punches a round in a 45 round fight? Because he sure doesn't use footwork, head movement or upperbody movement. Even a boxer like Gaspar Ortega makes him look amateurish, and Ortega used to be a trial horse in his day despite being of the same stature, possessing an arguably better chin and having as great of a workrate.

An overweight Rocky Rivero used to throw 100+ punch barrages a round back in the day, it's nothing new. Not to mention Rocky Marciano.

Or Carlos Ortiz here:



Compare the way of throwing punches to Angulo.



Wide misses like 0:53 and 1:37 will wear anybody out.



I don't doubt that it's more beneficial in a 10 or 12 round fight, but a 45 round fight is like running a marathon. You need the ability to conserve your energy and to pace yourself and to also have the mentality to hang in there when hours have passed while you're still going at it. Imagine a Jermain Taylor going 45 rounds and the man used to be a middleweight champion in these days.



It's not nonsense. Today you see top fighters running out of gas in 12 round fights. You rarely saw it happen to anyone even in 15 round fights. I believe that has to do with a lack of skill and ability to conserve oneself along with dehydration and the fact that many boxers today don't keep in shape in between the fights.

It's not a lack of conditioning, because a lot of well-conditioned boxers run out of steam. In a boxing ring, being forced to fight at an uncomfortable pace can eat away the stamina of almost everybody. We just saw Alfredo Angulo, a man who used to go 10 rounds with relative ease, punch himself out in 1 round. On the other hand, James Toney can go 12 as shot and out of shape as he is.

Anybody can try it out by throwing explosive, wide punches without a correct breathing rhythm in comparison to relaxed and compact punches to see the difference.

you have people who think they know what they're talking about and who will use weak arguments to support their thesis...

and you have the GreatA