Ortiz was a cherry pick???

[jrosales13]

essentially every argument we have on these forums comes down to "who have they fought and who have they beaten". Who had Hatton fought and beaten to that point to make u think he would beat tszyu? Vince Phillips? Ben Tackie? Ray Oliveira?

It wasn't about who Hatton had faced/beaten more of where I felt Kostya was at the time? If it was the Kostya that fought Judah or a prime Tzsyu then I would have the same opinion as you.

But, you prove the point that would have made Hatton overrated no? Who had he beaten? And, then he beats a faded champ who's out the door and suddenly he becomes P4P elite?

I wouldn't give someone like.

[jrosales13]

Every fighter Floyd or Manny fights, unless its the mandatory, can be argued or considered a cherry pick. Historically, transcendant champions pick the fights that are the most lucrative at a certain point in their careers.

The rationale people use here is quite confusing. If floyd picks Ortiz and beats him its a cherry pick. If floyd picks manny and beats him, whats the difference?

Well, one would be the greatest win of his career while the other one was just an OK win at best.

[Cash Cow]

You're completely missing my point dude, I NEVER at any point thought Hatton was anything special, although I did think Tszyu would beat him. People just always change their perspectives on opponents after Mayweather beats them. So many people on these boards said Mayweather would never fight Mosley after Mosley beat Margs, mayweather fights and beats Mosley and then Mosley was washed up. So many people said Mayweather would never fight Ortiz after he beat Berto, Mayweather fights and beats him and now its a cherry pick.

I totally agree...I mean these clowns say Mayweather ducked Tszyu @140, then when Hatton makes him QUIT on his stool Tszyu is old, then when Mayweather is the first to give the undefeated #5P4P Hatton his first lost by KO then it was, That wasnt hattons weight class but Hatton was undefeated and was moving up to challenge himself like all great fighters do and should.

When Mosley was trying to fight Manny, ROACH wanted to fight @142lbs & when Mosley agreed they ducked and cherry picked...

"Shane Mosley is now agreeable to challenge Manny Pacquiao at 142 pounds. Earlier Freddie Roach, Pacquaio's trainer, dared Mosley to face the pound-for-pound king at 142 but he said he cannot fight at the weight lower than 145
After the Mosley-Margarito match early this year, Shane Mosley has made known his desire to face the current pound-for-pound king Manny Pacquiao of the Philippines.

Freddie Roach, the multi-awarded trainer of Pacquiao dared Mosley to face Manny at 142 pounds. Mosley said he cannot fight at the weight lower than 145 pounds.

Mosley’s decision to challenge Pacquiao at 142 could be disastrous for the aging boxer. Although he is far superior to the current pound-for-pound king in terms of reach, height and built, he will be a picture of a dehydrated fighter if he finally accepts Freddie Roach’s challenge.

“There are conflicting reports from the Pacquiao camp an upcoming fight between me and Manny Pacquiao. I want it to be known that I want to fight Pacquiao and I want to fight him now,” Mosley was quoted.

“I’m willing to meet at a catch weight to make that happen. I know this is what Freddie Roach wants as well, as he has previously stated this to press,” he said. "

I mean for christ sakes Pac fought Clottey right after Clottey lost to Cotto..

[Cash Cow]

Arum: Mosley not likely to fight Pacquiao


Shane Mosley, who showed his age and the wear and tear of 53 professional bouts and 376 live rounds against the listless Sergio Mora on Saturday, did not help his standing in the Manny Pacquiao sweepstakes.
That's the word from Pacquiao promoter Bob Arum, who was busy with religious observance on Yom Kippur and did not view the bout live.
Asked on Sunday if he'd read the less-than-glowing reports of the controversial draw, Arum gave little reason to expect a Mosley-Pacquiao showdown.

"I did and I read them saying Mosley was huffing and puffing for air in the fourth or fifth round," Arum said. "To me, that is the real tipoff for an aging fighter. Even Big George Foreman did that in his 40s but he always had that big, big punch like in the (Michael) Moorer fight.

"What I've read is not very supportive to make any Mosley-Pacquiao bout. Look, he's going to be 40 and he's in the lighter weights where speed is so important. He's on a show with guys -- example, 20-year-old Saul Canelo Alvarez -- old enough to be his son.

"I guess Shane needs the money due to his matrimonial sitaution (a divorce under harsh California community property rules)," Arum said. "I've always considered Shane to be a nice guy but this is what happens to fighters when they age.

"It's like (Bernard) Hopkins, he still knows how to fight but who wants to pay to see him now? His fights are not very scintillating. What you see with Hopkins we're beginning to see with Mosley."

Arum said he wouldn't be interested in playing the flakcatcher if he made a Shane-Manny bout at this point.


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1aUwG1lsl

[The Big Dunn]

Well, one would be the greatest win of his career while the other one was just an OK win at best.

While I appreciate the response you are well aware of what the post is refering to. Beating manny is just like beating Ortiz, Mosley, or anyone post ODH for floyd if we use the logic employed by some on this board.

Posters are looking for some plauisble explanation or reason for why floyd easily beats top level fighters. So its 2 things: floyd cherry picks only guys he can beat and EVERYONE he doesn't fight would've been a tough opponent floyd would lose to.

We get it.

[Cash Cow]

Bob Arum: Manny Pacquiao's 'Never' Faced Shane Mosley's Style

Pacquiao's selection of the aging Mosley has drawn criticism from the boxing community, Top Rank Promotions' CEO, Bob Arum, used Hopkins' argument as a means of defending Mosley as an opponent.

"Manny Pacquiao, with all due respect, never has fought a fighter of the ability and the skill set of Mosley. Mosley is the epitome of an African American fighter with a style," said Arum.

"And even though he is a little on in age, he still has that style and he still has that punching power," said Arum. "And I, for one, am curious as to how Pacquiao deals with that type of style, which he hasn't faced before. That's the interesting part of this fight."

Pacquiao's adviser, Michael Koncz, also defended the selection of Mosley as an opponent.

"Again, who cares? I'm not too concerned, and nor is Manny, because, we want to do two things -- and when I say, 'we,' I'm speaking for Manny," said Koncz.

"No. 1, we want to entertain the fans, because that's of the utmost importance to Manny. No. 2, we want to generate a paycheck, because that's his living," said Koncz. "Out of the three names that we were giving, this was the best, overall opponent that we could get. Bob Arum never forces anything on us. He gives us options, and then, it's our decision on what we do."

[jrosales13]

While I appreciate the response you are well aware of what the post is refering to. Beating manny is just like beating Ortiz, Mosley, or anyone post ODH for floyd if we use the logic employed by some on this board.

Posters are looking for some plauisble explanation or reason for why floyd easily beats top level fighters. So its 2 things: floyd cherry picks only guys he can beat and EVERYONE he doesn't fight would've been a tough opponent floyd would lose to.

We get it.

The one difference that one should be considered is that this would be the first true ATG that Floyd has ever fought. That's the main difference between Pac and the other Floyd opponents. Pac is the only one that's a unanimous top 100 ATG, no other Floyd opponent in the past can say that. Hell Pac is even top 50, some say top 30 ATG. So it's safe to say that beating Pac is quite different than beating Ortiz or Mosley or Hatton or Oscar or anyone else Floyd has beaten.

Then considering that the consensus that Pac ranks higher than Floyd(means nothing really, but the masses loves this argument) coincidentally in Floyd weight-class then it would be hard to put this as the same light as Ortiz, Mosley, Hatton whoever in Floyd previous opponent. Hell the last time this happen, I think was against Corrales. And, Floyd gets credit lots of it and deservedly so does he not?

So there's actually quite a big difference in beating Pac than beating the other ones who Floyd has fought. Again this would be his greatest wins, while the others that you mentioned were just OK, to good wins at best.

[Cassius Liston]

The last 2 Morales fights?

The 2nd MAB fight?

David Diaz?

Joshua Clottey?

Antonio Margarito?

Shane Mosley?

for the 3rd time in 7 years, JMM?

end thread

[Cash Cow]

HaHa Mannys entire career has been a cherry pick...gimme a break...I mean he has fought guys over and over, hes fought guys on the decline, hes been matched with certain styles that allows his style to flourish as weve all seen that he has troubles with good boxers who move and dont stand right in front of him. Everyone is in denial look how these clowns justify the Cotto catch weight fight, and the margarito catchweight fight. ...so wait, you fight Cotto @145, you fight clottey @147 & you fight Margarito @150 for a 154 belt? arent all these dudes the same guys that people said were the TOP WELTERWEIGHTS? Why do you need weight advantages if you are the best WW? and if you can call yourself a champ @154lbs then why not win the belt at 154lbs? you see how people try to alter reality for Manny just cause of their sick hatred for Mayweather?

[The Big Dunn]

The one difference that one should be considered is that this would be the first true ATG that Floyd has ever fought. That's the main difference between Pac and the other Floyd opponents. Pac is the only one that's a unanimous top 100 ATG, no other Floyd opponent in the past can say that. Hell Pac is even top 50, some say top 30 ATG. So it's safe to say that beating Pac is quite different than beating Ortiz or Mosley or Hatton or Oscar or anyone else Floyd has beaten.

Then considering that the consensus that Pac ranks higher than Floyd(means nothing really, but the masses loves this argument) coincidentally in Floyd weight-class then it would be hard to put this as the same light as Ortiz, Mosley, Hatton whoever in Floyd previous opponent. Hell the last time this happen, I think was against Corrales. And, Floyd gets credit lots of it and deservedly so does he not?

So there's actually quite a big difference in beating Pac than beating the other ones who Floyd has fought. Again this would be his greatest wins, while the others that you mentioned were just OK, to good wins at best.

Post ODH its really no difference. Anybody floyd fights and defeats is still subject to the cherry pick label. Mosley is a HOF fighter so I doubt seriously manny's hypothetical ATG status somehow changes the minds of the imbeciles employing the logic referenced in my initial post because manny is a future HOF too.

Corrales was of course pre-ODH so thats the difference.

Would it be his greatest win if he were favored? He will likely be a 2-1 or 3-1 favorite against Manny. WOuld beating a 3-1 underdog who is a future HOF be better than beating Diego (RIP) which floyd was not as big a favorite?