Ortiz was a cherry pick???

[RubenSonny]

You're completely missing my point dude, I NEVER at any point thought Hatton was anything special, although I did think Tszyu would beat him. People just always change their perspectives on opponents after Mayweather beats them. So many people on these boards said Mayweather would never fight Mosley after Mosley beat Margs, mayweather fights and beats Mosley and then Mosley was washed up. So many people said Mayweather would never fight Ortiz after he beat Berto, Mayweather fights and beats him and now its a cherry pick.

I have never picked against Mayweather and he is my favourite fighter of all time.

Considering Hatton's level of competition up until the Tszyu fight I absolutely considered it a mild upset.

That's a fair point he was just a glorified club fighter before the Tszyu fight.

so Tszyu is considered by many to be one of the best 140lbers ever and he is overrated? Who was better than him during his reign at 140lbs?

Just wondering...

It doesn't matter if he's considered to be one of the best 140s ever the history of the division is fairly shallow. His career mostly consisted of title defences against mediocre opponents. His best win is Zab Judah and he lost to a journeyman in his prime. He was a good fighter but nowhere near great, he gets his ass handed to him by prime Benitez, Cervantes, Chavez, Ortiz, Canzoneri, and Ross, not to mention any great or semi great WW.

[Cash Cow]

Well wouldn't that be RubenSonny point? Obviously he disagrees that Kostya is one of the best 140lbers ever, therefor makes him overrated in his mind.

Isn't that exactly how you feel about Pac? Obviously just by this thread alone you don't think Pac is all that. But, Pac by many is considered one of the greatest fighters ever. And, the best P4P fighter right now. Yet you feel his overrated, and that's why right? Because, of what many feel?

Just sayin'

I dont think tszyu is all that at all either, but that doesnt take away from the fact that he was the best @140 for a long time, so obviously the guy was pretty good.

also, I think Pac is a good fighter vs stationary non defensive opposition. Counter Punching and movement will beat a volume puncher

i think Manny is pumped up more because of the anti Mayweather vibe. Manny is the good guy and follows rules, Mayweather goes against the establishment and sets his own rules. Bob Arum has a lot of power and influence in this business. nobody can tell me that Manny going 34-2 across asia before coming to the US, losing to a washed up Morales then fighting him 2 more times, fighting an old Berrera, then an even older Berrera years later is BEST FIGHTER OF THIS ERA....... being outboxed by JMM twice, NOT fighting the REAL CHAMPS@135 & fighting David Diaz, fighting a drained old DLH, Cotto @ a catchweight, Clottey after he lost to Cotto, Margarito after he was knocked out and suspended for cheating and fighting Shane Mosley is NOT THE BEST FIGHTER OF THIS ERA.

The facts dont lie,...Manny has been fed the right fighters at the right time, you know this and I know this.

When is the last time Manny beat a top undefeated figther? A young top fighter?

Since fighting david Diaz in 2008 this dudes career has been laughable and very well orchestrated by Top Rank

,.....styles make fights and Mannys style is not a problem for Mayweather.....

[jrosales13]

HOF is not subject to the individual, it is subject to a vote taken 5 years after retirement. Since voters refer to both as future HOF'ers and WE BOTH AGREE this is correct, then its valid.

Rankings are in many forms, some are individual, some are culmulative. Most rankings had shane #1 then and have manny #1 now so I think its valid.

Your point about beating manny being greater is based on subjective things like p4p and ATG status. Take that out of it and what is left?

Floyd beat Shane when shane was widely considered the best ww in the sport other than floyd. Haters say he cherry picked shane. If floyd beats manny, he will AGAIN beat somone widely considered the best ww in the sport other than floyd.

So, taking your subjective feelings out of it, how is it any different? How has he not "cherry picked" manny?

Of course it is subjective feeling. By many Barry McGuigan doesn't belong in the HOF. By many Cocoa Kid, Eddie Booker etc etc belong in the HOF, even more so than Barry.

Lyle just wrote an article of the 5 fighters that shouldn't be in the HOF. So yes it's all subjective.

You can look at rankings from other website and organizations and they all are different. So again it's subjective.

If the opinion differs then it's subject.

So don't shoot down one argument while basically using the same one just to fit your agenda.

[Cash Cow]

Stop saying in one breath that ATG is hypothetical and subject to the individual while on the other breath saying both are future HOF'ers and their WW ranking. Because all that is subject to individual as well.

Mosley is/was not considered by the masses in being on Pac level. End of.

So why didnt Pac fight Mosley when he was P4p#3 and ranked the #1 WW? Why was he trynA drain him to 142 lbs then turn around and fight Cotto @145lbs then Clottey @147lbs?

[jrosales13]

I dont think tszyu is all that at all either,

Then WTF is the issue with RubenSonny post?

[jrosales13]

So why didnt Pac fight Mosley when he was P4p#3 and ranked the #1 WW? Why was he trynA drain him to 142 lbs then turn around and fight Cotto @145lbs then Clottey @147lbs?

Same reason why Floyd avoided Margarito who was not on his level.

[Cash Cow]

WTF are you going on about?

All I have said is that Pac will be the greatest win of his career. That it would be considered much different in beating Pac then it was in Ortiz, Mosley Hatton and that like. That no one he has faced Post Oscar is on Pac level.

Not once in this thread did I mention Pac beating Floyd or how a H2H match up with Floyd will play out.

Are you that blinded from Floyd jizz that you seeing things that are no there?

you said...

"But, post Oscar no one he has faced is on the level of Pac. So yes there is a big difference."

all the guys he has fought is no different than Manny and he will beat him just as he beat the other guys he has fought. Thats all

[Cash Cow]

I have never picked against Mayweather and he is my favourite fighter of all time.



That's a fair point he was just a glorified club fighter before the Tszyu fight.



It doesn't matter if he's considered to be one of the best 140s ever the history of the division is fairly shallow. His career mostly consisted of title defences against mediocre opponents. His best win is Zab Judah and he lost to a journeyman in his prime. He was a good fighter but nowhere near great, he gets his ass handed to him by prime Benitez, Cervantes, Chavez, Ortiz, Canzoneri, and Ross, not to mention any great or semi great WW.

I agree,,,but he was still considered the best during his reign correct?

[jrosales13]

you said...

"But, post Oscar no one he has faced is on the level of Pac. So yes there is a big difference."

all the guys he has fought is no different than Manny and he will beat him just as he beat the other guys he has fought. Thats all

Yes there are different that they're not on the level of Pac nor as great as Pac. So there is there big difference. That's all.

[Cash Cow]

Same reason why Floyd avoided Margarito who was not on his level.

Margarito was never ranked the #1 WW, he was only hyped up by Bob Arum..
Mayweather leaves Arum then all of a sudden hes scared of Margarito?? How naive are you man?.....so again..why didnt Manny fight the #1 WW?