The Klitshckos and Today's Heavyweight Division

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  • JAB5239
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    #41
    Originally posted by Pirao
    You didn't give **** and closed the thread to boot, so don't try to act all high and mighty, you're a joke.

    I can't close threads in NSB you moron. And for anyone who wants to go back and look it is clear you ducked my questions and points. The only jokes around here are you and any other nuthugger who thinks their favorite fighter can do no wrong because you don't understand the sport or its history.

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    • King Kong
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      #42
      Originally posted by JAB5239

      I can't close threads in NSB you moron. And for anyone who wants to go back and look it is clear you ducked my questions and points. The only jokes around here are you and any other nuthugger who thinks their favorite fighter can do no wrong because you don't understand the sport or its history.
      Nope, I read that thread and you clearly got schooled by him. You did an awful lot of mental gymnastics, twisting and turning just to hang with him in the debate which you eventually lost as he had the stronger points, but you were eventually exposed at the end of the thread by a few posters as being racist. JAT :]

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      • Welsh Jon
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        #43
        The 2000's had 2 elite fighters. Neither will fight each other, with good reason.
        The 1990's era had 4 elite fighters, Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe and Tyson, who fought each other on several occasions.

        Holyfield fought all 3 elite contenders, having 7 fights against them
        Lewis fought Holyfield twice and Tyson once.
        Tyson fought Holyfield twice and Lewis once.
        Bowe fought Holyfield 3 times.

        So the 1990's had a trilogy of fights between Holyfield and Bowe, 2 between Tyson and Holyfield and 2 between Holyfield and Lewis That's 7 fights between the division's elite.

        The 2000's had Lewis vs Tyson and Lewis vs Vitali. So that's 2 fights between the divisions elite. And neither of those were between that generations true elite fighters.

        So there were far more elite fights in the 1990's

        It's not the Klits fault that their only real contender was blood related. But that's the reality.

        You can't say Wlad had tougher challenges than he would have done in the 1990's, cos if he wanted to dominate in the 90's he would have had to fight several fights against elite opposition. He has dominated the past decade with 0 fights against elite opposition.

        So please explain to me how this is tougher?

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        • JAB5239
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          #44
          Originally posted by CITADEL
          Nope, I read that thread and you clearly got schooled by him. You did an awful lot of mental gymnastics, twisting and turning just to hang with him in the debate which you eventually lost as he had the stronger points, but you were eventually exposed at the end of the thread by a few posters as being racist. JAT :]
          Yeah, you're a credible source. Aren't you the same guy who was bitter about the red k and started stalking me?

          Tell me this,how can I be schooled if he refuses to answer questions and ignores direct points?

          Thanks for your time!

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          • JAB5239
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            #45
            Originally posted by Welsh Jon
            The 2000's had 2 elite fighters. Neither will fight each other, with good reason.
            The 1990's era had 4 elite fighters, Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe and Tyson, who fought each other on several occasions.

            Holyfield fought all 3 elite contenders, having 7 fights against them
            Lewis fought Holyfield twice and Tyson once.
            Tyson fought Holyfield twice and Lewis once.
            Bowe fought Holyfield 3 times.

            So the 1990's had a trilogy of fights between Holyfield and Bowe, 2 between Tyson and Holyfield and 2 between Holyfield and Lewis That's 7 fights between the division's elite.

            The 2000's had Lewis vs Tyson and Lewis vs Vitali. So that's 2 fights between the divisions elite. And neither of those were between that generations true elite fighters.

            So there were far more elite fights in the 1990's

            It's not the Klits fault that their only real contender was blood related. But that's the reality.

            You can't say Wlad had tougher challenges than he would have done in the 1990's, cos if he wanted to dominate in the 90's he would have had to fight several fights against elite opposition. He has dominated the past decade with 0 fights against elite opposition.

            So please explain to me how this is tougher?

            These are the same points I made yesterday only to have Pirao ask how Holyfield could be an all time great when he lost to (Moorer) a former light heavyweight. That is the type of logic we're dealing with here.

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            • King Kong
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              #46
              Originally posted by JAB5239
              Yeah, you're a credible source. Aren't you the same guy who was bitter about the red k and started stalking me?

              Tell me this,how can I be schooled if he refuses to answer questions and ignores direct points?

              Thanks for your time!
              No, I pointed out that you were stalking the poster Freedom. then you sent me red k and then had a hissy fit, as you seem to do often on this forum. Anyway, I posted my opinion, people will read it and move on to the next post, so I'll leave your racist self to do whatever racists do.

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              • JAB5239
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                #47
                Originally posted by CITADEL
                No, I pointed out that you were stalking the poster Freedom. then you sent me red k and then had a hissy fit, as you seem to do often on this forum. Anyway, I posted my opinion, people will read it and move on to the next post, so I'll leave your racist self to do whatever racists do.
                This is exactly what I am talking about.

                1. I bet you can't show a single post where I have been racist, so you can cut that crap right out.
                2. That was the FIRST time I ever responded to Freedom first in ANY thread, so how could I be stalking?
                3. It seems you would rather troll than address the points I made. That seems to be a common thing amongst nuthuggers with no answers. If not you would cut the bogus accusations out and talk boxing.

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                • Welsh Jon
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                  #48
                  Originally posted by JAB5239

                  These are the same points I made yesterday only to have Pirao ask how Holyfield could be an all time great when he lost to (Moorer) a former light heavyweight. That is the type of logic we're dealing with here.
                  How is Holyfield an all-time great?

                  It's probably not worth wasting energy debating such questions!

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                  • JAB5239
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                    #49
                    Originally posted by Welsh Jon
                    How is Holyfield an all-time great?

                    It's probably not worth wasting energy debating such questions!

                    Its ridiculous. When they can no longer speak with logic they make up the absurd.

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                    • edgarg
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                      #50
                      Originally posted by !! Mr. Soprano
                      People are b-i-t-c-h-i-n-g that the HW division sucks! Does it, or are the Klitschko's just so superior to make everyone else look like bums?

                      What would the division be like without the Klitschkos? I do see some exciting fights.

                      Think about this.. is it that much different than it was 10-15 years ago?

                      Arreola, Peter, Brewster, Chambers, Chagaev, Povetkin, same JC Gomez, now Haye, up and coming Boytsov & Helenius.

                      Are these guys any worse than Rahman, Francois Botha, Michael Grant, Golota, Shannon Briggs, Chris Byrd, Tommy Morrison, Ray Mercer, etc? Probably NOT!

                      The thing is that the Klitschkos are just too superior that make any of the opposition look like crap... They (mostly Wlad) have really cleaned up anyone on their way... much like Lewis did during his time... the only difference is that Wlad lacks that excitement that most American spectators complain about...

                      Is it his fault that they are so superior that there is no real danger and his fights are usually a one-sided beating?

                      Wlad would have cleaned up the division 10 years ago, much like he did today... only great matchup would be him against Lewis!

                      P.S. Those who say Tyson and Holyfield both knock him out, get real, Tyson is 5'10! and certainly was not the same Tyson he was in the 80's. Holyfield - aside from a washed up Tyson, did he even KO anyone in the 90's?
                      Yes, they are so superior that they make all the other fighters look less than ordinary. You could also say that V Klitschko could do the same as his brother, make good opposition look ordinary. People forget (or don't know since most are newcomers) that he came back at an advanced age, from a career ending injury, and half killed the reigning WBC champ whose only loss had been to WK. With NO warm-up fights beforehand. Who else could ever do that......??

                      People don't know that Joe Louis, one of the most recognised, and often said to be the top heavyweight ever, hardly ever beat a fighter who had had less than 10 losses. Many of his fights were won against well known and thought of guys who often had more than 30 LOSSES. In his famous fight against Tony Galento (nicknamed Two Ton, because he actually was very fat) Galento nearly KO'd him, until KO'd himself in the 4th. Galento had had about 25 losses then, and would have been long washed up with over 100 fights) if fighting today. I remember the fight as a toddler, and used to see pictures of Galento with a cigar in his mouth, an apron on, and carrying a barrel of beer on his shoulder. He owned a saloon and acted as his own bouncer as well. They said he used to train on beer and cigars. Lots of PR.

                      But he had a wicked left hook and fought and beat some very well regarded fighters who had title fights to their records.

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