Floyd has turned the tables on Manny in their chessmatch

[Walt Liquor]

Knowing and understanding are two different things. Some fights aren't worth picking. I've seen him re-state it at least twice in this thread so maybe you don't get it. Maybe you don't want to.

knowing and understanding are different...don't you mean understanding and agreeing are differnet? i don't agree with what burner's point is, he never acknowledged my argument back so he can say it as many times as he wants, but either way, its a step behind.

[IMDAZED]

what you're not seeing is that none of the cutoff date or anything like that matters.... the particulars don't matter in this case, everyone percieves floyd as having used the OST to get out of the fight....

my stance is that it was a bad business move.

especially when you and your family constantly publicly shi t on manny's skills and chances vs floyd in a fight....and when the majority of people favor floyd in that fight

What if Floyd is legitimately concerned that Manny is on something? What then?

[fcastro1]

what you need is logical and intelligent politicians that base their decisions on logic and economy and not some fairytales in the bible.

gloria arroya was educated in the states. what did she do for the country.

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

what you're not seeing is that none of the cutoff date or anything like that matters.... the particulars don't matter in this case, everyone percieves floyd as having used the OST to get out of the fight....

my stance is that it was a bad business move.

especially when you and your family constantly publicly shi t on manny's skills and chances vs floyd in a fight....and when the majority of people favor floyd in that fight

Honestly only ****** casual fans think that.

That same demand couldnt get him out of the Mosley or Ortiz fights. Manny shouldve simply called his bluff like Ortiz and Mosley "did".

[IMDAZED]

Thats the key to the fight. Floyd didnt ask for the tests because he was afraid or wanted to kill the fight. Its about ensuring hes in a clean fight.

The SAME way Pac is ensuring that he wont be in a fight where a guy comes in over the limit.

Some people want to separate the demands they are essentially the same thing.

You ain't gotta explain to me, man. It's so obvious that people who hate Floyd are looking for a million other explanations other than the one slapping them in their face.

The bottom line is, there's nothing wrong with better testing. Nothing. Even Manny agrees. He just didn't want them to show up unannounced.

[Manny#1ATG]

ive been over this a zillion times and adressed it in this thread already.

ive studied negotiation...

huge egos egos, plus false accusations, plus publicly defaming your opponent, plus introducing something which the sport already has methods to combat, plus timing= no ***n way they're going to accept it on the first go around. (remember this is the first legit opponent in many peoples mind that floyd could have fought since '03)

listen dazed, we aren't going to agree on this, you are looking at it from a pro mayweather/anti doping crusader perspective (which no one was for the most part before this fiasco). you absolutely refuse to acknowledge anything else... you use the same arguments but they just aren't valid when you take into account perception and negotiation principles.

you can't just all the sudden play the "for the betterment of boxing" crusader card for floyd, its all bullshi t. maybe if floyd had a rep for being a stand up guy you could possible have an argument that could be argued.

I agree that this isn't a "for the betterment of boxing crusade" but in the post-BALCO era, every modern athlete is subject to scrutiny. I also disagree that this suddenly became an issue because the Mayweathers said something. Victor Conte has indicated that boxing has some of the highest PED abuse of any american sports. When people start doing amazing things like Pacquiao has, the public has every right to scrutinize him. The whole notion that nobody thought Pac was juicing before the Mayweathers said anything is just minimalist and naive.

Is Pacquiao a PED abuser? I don't know. Is he somehow above scrutiny by the public? Not at all. I think as Americans we have been overexposed to media coverage on designer drugs over the last decade. Especially compared to a place like the Philippines. I really can't think of a logical reason why refusing to take better testing can result in a moral high ground in this day and age of modern sports. Anybody who doesn't want to take a few additional tests that are minimally invasive, looks pretty damn guilty to me.

[Barry Halls]

gloria arroya was educated in the states. what did she do for the country.

did i ever say american education is a guarantee for logical and intelligent behaviour?

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

What if Floyd is legitimately concerned that Manny is on something? What then?

You honestly don't believe this.....

All of a sudden Floyd made this crusade about PED's? Sorry man, I'm not that naive.

[IMDAZED]

Honestly only ****** casual fans think that.

That same demand couldnt get him out of the Mosley or Ortiz fights. Manny shouldve simply called his bluff like Ortiz and Mosley "did".

Forreal. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of people I've met off the forums who think that. I work in Finance and nearly every casual fan thinks Manny's gotta be hiding something. I remember them staring at their screens, shaking their head and repeating..."$40 million..."

[Walt Liquor]

Thats the key to the fight. Floyd didnt ask for the tests because he was afraid or wanted to kill the fight. Its about ensuring hes in a clean fight.

The SAME way Pac is ensuring that he wont be in a fight where a guy comes in over the limit.

Some people want to separate the demands they are essentially the same thing.

burner, ANY demand is ensuring/protecting or gaining an advantage, so you could say the same for gloves, ring size, anything....this argument is just not valid, you two just keep agreeing with each other and refuse to show any sort of argument or understanding of my arguments while I show complete understanding of your arguments and refute them...

anyway , I have to do some damn work at some point today, but I'll be in and out of here....