Floyd has turned the tables on Manny in their chessmatch

[Walt Liquor]

Floyd says that about everyone. And that's quite irrelevant - come on, we don't need a 4th grade response, Walt.

But getting back to the topic...what if Floyd legitimately believes that?

then it would go hand in hard with what I said floyd should do earlier, that you never responded to

[IMDAZED]

I understand fully, I'm just making the point that it's about money and it's about his concerns of PED's, which the last one I don't buy.

But your point is wrong based on the facts.

**Scratches head**

[Manny#1ATG]

Floyd gave his reasons.

I have a BIG reason. ind me ONE poster who wouldve predicted Pacs historic rise in weight like this. I made a thread like 2 years ago saying that Pac would get hurt and that it was a bad idea and LITERALLY everyone agreed with me. It was like a 25 page thread. Its locked now so I cant bump it.

Then you have Ariza saying he has no idea what he takes.

You have Pac wanting to know when he will be tested.

You have other boxers who will take the tests no problems.

You have him being scared of needles. But is tatted up.

You have Pac who has been in countless wars and is a guy that Manny Steward and Lampley said is on the decline. Mind you this was when he fought JMM a second time.

Now all of a sudden he has a second wind and is KOing and dominating legit WW, JMW and JWW's.

He went from being out on ***** street by Oscar Larios to eating flush Cotto bombs.

If Pac takes the tests we have a fight. Its really that simple.

This. The guy looks suspect and then he and his PR machine come up with a dozen different angles and spin on why he refused the blood testing...I personally cannot fathom why people are defending Pac in this. He could have avoided this entire thing by just agreeing to a reasonable demand. Instead it has exploded into a multi-year smear campaign across all of the boxing media.

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

of course he does, but does that mean he can't beat his ass?

So wait we knock Floyd because he doesnt feel comfortable about fighting a guy he suspects is roiding with no tests?


Yet we cant knock the guy who doesnt want to be tested?

[IMDAZED]

then it would go hand in hard with what I said floyd should do earlier, that you never responded to

You said he should drop it because people want to see it. And the bottom line is, people aren't getting into the ring. He is. If he was asking for **** check-ups I'd understand the concern but it's drug testing. Let's get a grip here.

[Walt Liquor]

Floyd gave his reasons.

I have a BIG reason. ind me ONE poster who wouldve predicted Pacs historic rise in weight like this. I made a thread like 2 years ago saying that Pac would get hurt and that it was a bad idea and LITERALLY everyone agreed with me. It was like a 25 page thread. Its locked now so I cant bump it.

Then you have Ariza saying he has no idea what he takes.

You have Pac wanting to know when he will be tested.

You have other boxers who will take the tests no problems.

You have him being scared of needles. But is tatted up.

You have Pac who has been in countless wars and is a guy that Manny Steward and Lampley said is on the decline. Mind you this was when he fought JMM a second time.

Now all of a sudden he has a second wind and is KOing and dominating legit WW, JMW and JWW's.

He went from being out on ***** street by Oscar Larios to eating flush Cotto bombs.

If Pac takes the tests we have a fight. Its really that simple.

here...............

I agree that this isn't a "for the betterment of boxing crusade" but in the post-BALCO era, every modern athlete is subject to scrutiny. I also disagree that this suddenly became an issue because the Mayweathers said something. Victor Conte has indicated that boxing has some of the highest PED abuse of any american sports. When people start doing amazing things like Pacquiao has, the public has every right to scrutinize him. The whole notion that nobody thought Pac was juicing before the Mayweathers said anything is just minimalist and naive.

Is Pacquiao a PED abuser? I don't know. Is he somehow above scrutiny by the public? Not at all. I think as Americans we have been overexposed to media coverage on designer drugs over the last decade. Especially compared to a place like the Philippines. I really can't think of a logical reason why refusing to take better testing can result in a moral high ground in this day and age of modern sports. Anybody who doesn't want to take a few additional tests that are minimally invasive, looks pretty damn guilty to me.

your problem is that you're using logic.

look, in a perfect world, sure demanding OST should be the right thing to do, and accepting that demand would be the right thing to do...

throw in the gazillion variables and we're no longer looking at a perfect world, so you can use your logical arguments all you want, but logic gets you buried in the real world, hence my thread topic. you guys are in here arguing point #1 in my thread just to try and make excuses for floyd's rep......it's so dumb. point is that he came out of that negotiation looking bad to a large number of people, casual and hardcore fans alike..... fact is it hurt his rep back then and left him open to a ton of criticism. he's made steps since then and has moves that he can make that could change how its percieved long term....

[Barry Halls]

of course he does, but does that mean he can't beat his ass?

In floyds mind, manny is cheating. He will refuse to lose his precious 0 to someone that is cheating.
His crusade is part risk-control (as in if manny is clean he will be an easier opponent) and part ego (floyd wants to dictate the terms, just like manny).

I'm actually not on anyones side here. I could root for both if they stopped their bull****, but I'm not sure it will happen.
I do think Floyds demand of OST is reasonable, and Manny has not given any credible excuse as of yet on why he don't take them.

With that said, i wish floyd would just drop the demands. As a fan, i don't care who gets how much money, or who takes what tests. I want the fight to happen, easy as that.

[Barry Halls]

I understand fully, I'm just making the point that it's about money and it's about his concerns of PED's, which the last one I don't buy.

Are you saying it's all about money?

Why would he even care to go on this pursuit for ost if hes not concerned with peds?
Sorry if im getting you wrong, english is my secondary language.

[Walt Liquor]

You said he should drop it because people want to see it. And the bottom line is, people aren't getting into the ring. He is. If he was asking for **** check-ups I'd understand the concern but it's drug testing. Let's get a grip here.

that's not all I said...........

and please read my first post again, the point of my thread is that floyd is putting himself in a position by outmanuvering manny to change the perception and prove the validity of his original demands, you and burner are too used to arguing just that one point...

we can go on all day of whether it was a legit request or not, and you and i aren't going to agree...one thing we do know is that it turned a lot of people off.

but my point with this thread is that floyd is positioning himself to turn this around.

[Walt Liquor]

In floyds mind, manny is cheating. He will refuse to lose his precious 0 to someone that is cheating.
His crusade is part risk-control (as in if manny is clean he will be an easier opponent) and part ego (floyd wants to dictate the terms, just like manny).

I'm actually not on anyones side here. I could root for both if they stopped their bull****, but I'm not sure it will happen.
I do think Floyds demand of OST is reasonable, and Manny has not given any credible excuse as of yet on why he don't take them.

With that said, i wish floyd would just drop the demands. As a fan, i don't care who gets how much money, or who takes what tests. I want the fight to happen, easy as that.

we're in agreement, except that I think it was a guaranteed way out of the fight, which no one's going to change my mind of...i want him to drop it or manny to arge with it so they fight, they're both being pu$$ies but I think floyd has recently made the better moves in the pr game and is beginning to appear more credible and putting pressure on manny to prove HIMSELF.