better resume..hopkins,pacman

[damned1974]

Such a BS, but whatever. And, Hatton had win against top 10 JWW after Floyd and Lazcano prior to Pac.

Name all the fighters who have won 4 lineal titles...I will wait, is a short list...A very short list. And, that counts for a lot.

2 of the original 8 weight-classes, Flyweight and featherweight. Those 2 weight-classes have over a 100 years of boxing history. I repeat over a 100 of boxing history. Do you know how many great fighters fought in that weight-class? Do you? Now name me all the fighters who have won a lineal title in both weight-classes. Go ahead, take your time, is a very short list also.

Name all the fighters who have won a lineal featherweight title and won a lineage championship at 140 or above....Go ahead and name all those fighters.

You guys put so much stock of what Pac has done after Oscar, and rightfully so. I agree. But, Pac had done a lot before Oscar. Pac was already a first ballot HOF'er before fighting Oscar.

All of that goes to resumes, and against Pac win over Barrera is better than any Hopkins win.

Yes,I am aware of what Manny has done PRE Oscar (and your prior questions)...I watched him before the ODLH fight.You can reverse this by saying how many middleweights have defended their title as much as Hopkins...and on and on.

I disagree with the Baby Faced Assassin exclusively being better than all of Hopkins wins (yet I believe he was Manny's best win...MAB had beaten the likes of McKinney,Hamed,Kelley,Tapia and Morales before facing Manny).If that was the case,I can list several fighters (eg-Khan,Junior Jones,Marquez,etc etc etc) who held wins over Barrera.Does this make their resumes better than Hopkins-hell no.This is what the topic is about-collective fighters fought-resumes.Beating one great fighter (on his game before fighting MP) doesn't equate to an entire resume of good names (still on their game and getting ko'd for the 1st time by Bernard) in my book.That is why I say quality and quantity goes to Bernard.

Yes,Hatton had a good win against a guy who couldn't give him anything to respect with Paulie.Was Hatton perceived to be past his best after Floyd-there were definite questions before Floyd with the Collazo fight,and far more AFTER Floyd stopped him.Was Hatton prime or headed downwards in his career???

Oddly enough,Manny ,as of recent, fights guys who have had major question marks...even you would agree that this Mosely fight and the Margarito fight are shams.Hell,to this day I insist Marquez was his last real challenge-I am sure you agree with this.

[damned1974]

You picking apart what have Pac done lately and yet if he stayed at 130 or 135 do you think he will be much greater than he is as of now? Pac became one of the youngest champ after beating lineal champ Sasakul who beat the man who beat the man, with just two weeks short notice beat the hell out of Ledwaba arguably the man at 122, moved up to 126 and beat the man lineal champ Barrera who beat the man who beat the man, The fact that Morales fight was close enough to warrant a rematch nobody been telling us back then Morales was shot. Not even after his loss to Rahem simply because the fans said Morales just went up too far from his best weight. They said he beat Pac again in the rematch but then Pac proved them wrong and ko Morales for the first time in his career. Then the stories came out Morales was past his prime more so after he koed him in their 3rd fight. He also beaten Marquez and Hatton both were lineal champ in their respective weight classes. Pac could retire that time and still will be considered greater than Hopkins. What Pac has been done now are just the icing in the cake of his great career.

Dude-Morales lost clear in the rematch ....unless you think a tko isn't clear enough!The weight is not why Morales lost to Zahir Raheem-watch that fight and you will understand why he had problems-(most had major questions about where Morales's career was headed after this fight as well).

About the only thing I can agree with you is that Manny's fights at the lower weight classes were better victories than his current.Apart from that,I disagree with his resume being a better one than Bernard's.Using FOTY/D and BWAA as a means to prove a better resume as you have earlier is about as drab as it gets.

I thought the first fight with Marquez was a close win for JMM and it was tough giving Manny a round after the 2nd round (a draw was what it was officially ruled).The second fight I also had JMM winning....hell,even Ronnie Nathanielz (Manny fan extrordinaire) was quoted as having JMM winning.Not sure how you believe that Manny won... maybe you should watch the fights instead of reading boxrec results!

[jrosales13]

Yes,I am aware of what Manny has done PRE Oscar (and your prior questions)...I watched him before the ODLH fight.You can reverse this by saying how many middleweights have defended their title as much as Hopkins...and on and on.

I'm lineage wise? a handful of fighters have defended the lineal MW title as much as Hopkins. Hell Monzon doubles the lineal defenses at MW that Hopkins has.

Now how many fighters have won a lineal title in 4 different weight-classes?

Name all the fighters who have a lineal title at both Flyweight and featherweight?

I will wait for your answer.

I disagree with the Baby Faced Assassin exclusively being better than all of Hopkins wins (yet I believe he was Manny's best win...MAB had beaten the likes of McKinney,Hamed,Kelley,Tapia and Morales before facing Manny).

If you disagree then name a win better than that Barrera win. Who has Hopkins beaten that was a greater fighter than Barrera. I really interested in your answer.

If that was the case,I can list several fighters (eg-Khan,Junior Jones,Marquez,etc etc etc) who held wins over Barrera.Does this make their resumes better than Hopkins-hell no.

Wow...What a reach...Yes because, Jones, Khan, and JMM have accomplished as much as Pac.

Did you not read what I wrote? I'm not just only mentioning Barrera win. I add that to a what Pac has accomplished also.

This is what the topic is about-collective fighters fought-resumes.Beating one great fighter (on his game before fighting MP) doesn't equate to an entire resume of good names (still on their game and getting ko'd for the 1st time by Bernard) in my book.That is why I say quality and quantity goes to Bernard.

Barrera is not the only win though, against it was an add on to what Pac has accomplished. Is more accolades.

Pac has a handful of wins against fighters who were "on their game." Being undefeated does not automatically equate to being "on their game" If they're at a weight-class disadvantage then they're not "on their game" no matter if they're undefeated.

Yes,Hatton had a good win against a guy who couldn't give him anything to respect with Paulie.Was Hatton perceived to be past his best after Floyd-there were definite questions before Floyd with the Collazo fight,and far more AFTER Floyd stopped him.Was Hatton prime or headed downwards in his career???

You insinuated that Hatton was ruined. Because, he got rocked by Lazcano. If that was the case then Hatton wouldn't have beaten Paulie. Ruin fighters don't get those type of wins. Obviously he had something left, and was confident going in the ring as "the bigger man" and undefeated at that weight-class.

Oddly enough,Manny ,as of recent, fights guys who have had major question marks...even you would agree that this Mosely fight and the Margarito fight are shams.Hell,to this day I insist Marquez was his last real challenge-I am sure you agree with this.

Yes I agree with the former but not the latter. Cotto was a real challenge. Cotto win is just as good as Tarver win for Hopkins.

[jrosales13]

Dude-Morales lost clear in the rematch ....unless you think a tko isn't clear enough!The weight is not why Morales lost to Zahir Raheem-watch that fight and you will understand why he had problems-(most had major questions about where Morales's career was headed after this fight as well).

About the only thing I can agree with you is that Manny's fights at the lower weight classes were better victories than his current.Apart from that,I disagree with his resume being a better one than Bernard's.Using FOTY/D and BWAA as a means to prove a better resume as you have earlier is about as drab as it gets.

I thought the first fight with Marquez was a close win for JMM and it was tough giving Manny a round after the 2nd round (a draw was what it was officially ruled).The second fight I also had JMM winning....hell,even Ronnie Nathanielz (Manny fan extrordinaire) was quoted as having JMM winning.Not sure how you believe that Manny won... maybe you should watch the fights instead of reading boxrec results!

And, there are few who thought Pac won. Are you saying that the rematch was a robbery?

If that's the case then I suggest that you should watch the fight.

[damned1974]

And, there are few who thought Pac won. Are you saying that the rematch was a robbery?

If that's the case then I suggest that you should watch the fight.

I'll try to respond to all of your writing-

I thought Marquez won that fight (the rematch)....I have watched it plenty of times.I doubt I am the only one.Surely you can make a case for this as well since you have watched the fight,eh?

In response to who is better than a MAB win-my point was ONE win doesn't leapfrog over Hopkins entire resume.In other words,one win doesn't beat everyone collectively....make sense?

I disagree with Cotto being a better test or even on par with the Marquez fight, Cotto was beaten from pillar to post and maybe won 2 rounds tops.Marquez was Manny's last big challenge and even from an opposite view from mine,Marquez was still more competitive in both the fight and scorecards.

(Yes,Manny was the 1st to win the lineal from flyweight etc) Nobody disputes that he has achieved that or not,but against a few of those,it's not like he was going to lose! Let's be real here.All in all,I'm not sold-I have got Hopkins with more of the better names especially WHEN he had fought them.

[jrosales13]

I'll try to respond to all of your writing-

I thought Marquez won that fight (the rematch)....I have watched it plenty of times.I doubt I am the only one.Surely you can make a case for this as well since you have watched the fight,eh?

Well duh, it was a close fight that could have gone either way. To insinuate that it was some kind of a robbery is just not true.

In response to who is better than a MAB win-my point was ONE win doesn't leapfrog over Hopkins entire resume.In other words,one win doesn't beat everyone collectively....make sense?

So you agree Hopkins has no win greater than Barrera? Cool, now that we got that out of the way.

For the last time nobody is insinuating that ONE win leap frogs anything. But, one win, with other good wins, plus accomplishments all equates to resumes. You add all that together then you might be able to see where I'm coming from.

I disagree with Cotto being a better test or even on par with the Marquez fight, Cotto was beaten from pillar to post and maybe won 2 rounds tops.Marquez was Manny's last big challenge.

I never said that, you asked what was Pac last real challenge. And, Cotto was his last real challenge. Just because, he wasn't on par with JMM doesn't mean he wasn't a challenge.

That's like me asking what was B-Hop last real challenge? Roy Jones Jr from 1994. Because, nobody that he has faced so far has been up to par to that Roy Jones. Kind of silly no?

[badass316]

Pacquiao. If I had to choose one, I'll take 8 titles in 8 different weight divisions over 16 straight title defenses at one.

[hugh grant]

Would you say the quality of opponents that Manny has recently had better than prime rising fighters,some undefeated???? In fact,I can't think of many undefeated prime fighters worth a **** that Manny has fought-can you?

What you call prime rising are usually the easy ones to beat. They are prematurely built up before being exposed. Pavlik and Tarver werent that good, the evidence in that they achieved nothing after fighting BH and let alone achieved anything of late. It dont matter that Cotto, Hatton, Margarito werent undefeated they were still better than BHs opponents and Pac beat them more dominantly than BH did.
Most people hate how BH fights anyway.

Tell me which fighters do you think his biggest wins that would translate him having a better resume than Pac?

BHs opponents arent better. BH just gets more credit than he usually would because of his age. But he started boxing later than most.

[damned1974]

Well duh, it was a close fight that could have gone either way. To insinuate that it was some kind of a robbery is just not true.

Robbery....well,lets put it this way,I thought he won it easier than the first.I had JMM edging the first one.It was more clear to me (and the majority of fans I talked to at the time) with the second fight.

So you agree Hopkins has no win greater than Barrera? Cool, now that we got that out of the way.

For the last time nobody is insinuating that ONE win leap frogs anything. But, one win, with other good wins, plus accomplishments all equates to resumes. You add all that together then you might be able to see where I'm coming from.

Because you are usually a decent poster with me in the past,I will agree to disagree.When you look at the names,the quality of which Bernard had fought them,I pick Hopkins over Manny.I am beating a dead horse at this stage.I'm not saying Manny is crap,etc...but his recent string of opponents leave a lot to be desired (and please note,I am being polite when I say this-lol)


I never said that, you asked what was Pac last real challenge. And, Cotto was his last real challenge. Just because, he wasn't on par with JMM doesn't mean he wasn't a challenge.

To be honest,I knew Cotto would lose.He had a lot of questions after the Tony fight,and had one win against Michael "how did I get a title shot with Cotto" Jennings and a bad night with Clottey.Hard to say Cotto was a challenge dude-Pac was the fave going into that fight with how poor Cotto had looked prior to that fight and with the questions looming over him.This all proved correct in his fight with Manny after the second round.Since then,Cotto beat Yuri and had a war with Mayorga.He seemed to be on the decline since Tony beat him up.Do you think he is the same fighter?

That's like me asking what was B-Hop last real challenge? Roy Jones Jr from 1994. Because, nobody that he has faced so far has been up to par to that Roy Jones. Kind of silly no?

With Hopkins,he is always an underdog in his major fights-perhaps this is part of the reason I say a challenge or risk-when he is the underdog.Make sense?

[damned1974]

Pacquiao. If I had to choose one, I'll take 8 titles in 8 different weight divisions over 16 straight title defenses at one.

Where did you get these numbers? lol